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pfarnsworth · 9 years ago
Honestly, if LinkedIn disappeared today worldwide, I wouldn't miss it one second. It's really more of a chore than anything else. When you're looking for a job, or looking to recruit, it's helpful, but they haven't made the case of general everyday use, and I doubt they ever will.
jasonkostempski · 9 years ago
Last month I had to spend an hour making sure someone hadn't opened a LinkedIn account under my 8 year olds name after his aunt asked us why LinkedIn is suggesting she connect with him. Turned out she had his iCloud email in her contacts because she FaceTimes with him. LinkedIn thought it was OK to use her contact list to make it appear like he had an account there. The bastards found a way to waste my time even though I have no account with them. Humanity would be generally better off without LinkedIn.
FT_intern · 9 years ago
I assume that LinkedIn has made deals with third party social networks to get the creepy connection suggestions. I'm curious how much $$$ is involved
coherentpony · 9 years ago
What's to say LinkedIn didn't create the account after seeing the contact information?
htaunay · 9 years ago
Really? Three of my last five jobs came from Linked-in.

I find it very convenient to have offers come-in out of the blue, only having to pay the cost of tweaking my profile once a year, and occasionally skimming/deleting random recruiter messages.

I see it as being open to opportunities. Usually, I would only look for a job when: 1) Unemployed, or 2) Unsatisfied at my current position. In both cases I would be motivated to solve the problem ASAP.

But being approached when happily employed gives you the upper hand during negotiations, allowing you to make demands that you would usually not be so confident to make. Not to mention becoming aware of good opportunities when your "job radar" is turned off.

mrweasel · 9 years ago
Until last month I was in the "LinkedIn is irrelevant"-camp. Then I got the best job offer of my career from a company that does consulting from one of former employer. They don't want to steal people from customers, but when I finally got around update my LinkedIn profile I was contacted three hours later.

Without LinkedIn I would never have gotten the offer, because my new employer would have had no chance of knowing that I no longer work for one of their customers.

Florin_Andrei · 9 years ago
> but they haven't made the case of general everyday use, and I doubt they ever will

But who thinks of LI as general purpose social media? I don't think anybody uses LI except in the strict context of finding new jobs, and making sure you can find new jobs in the future.

I don't get the criticism. It's like blaming the screwdriver for not being able to hammer in a nail.

It's a jobs site. And for that purpose it's pretty good. End of story.

snark42 · 9 years ago
> I don't think anybody uses LI except in the strict context of finding new jobs, and making sure you can find new jobs in the future.

I also use it as an up to date electronic rolodex of sorts. Is this person still working at Cisco? What's their current contact info? Let me LinkIn with you so I don't need to keep this business card, etc.

secfirstmd · 9 years ago
Ditto, it seems most to mostly be stories of:

"10 years ago I was a alcoholic leprechaun but today I finally got that job working as a chimney sweep"

"Here's a picture of me with a homeless person I spoke to on my way to work today. It turns out they are people too."

"Don't you just love our military personnel/democracy/babies? One like to show you love these things. One share to show you don't hate them."

"Here's a pointless meme about mindfullness"

"Hey look at my dog wearing a santa costume" (actually that would be kind of cool)

arkitaip · 9 years ago
Bullshit. I am an alcoholic leprechaun and LinkedIn never got me a job.
hx87 · 9 years ago
It's become the social networking equivalent of Upworthy.
tananaev · 9 years ago
The issue is not about LinkedIn. The problem is that there is silly law that requires all personal data of Russian citizens to be stored on the servers located in Russia. It means that Russian government can block access to pretty much any website on the internet that they don't like.
rdiddly · 9 years ago
The issue is how LinkedIn didn't comply with a law. Are foreigners allowed to break laws they think are silly, in sovereign nations? No they are not.
Raphmedia · 9 years ago
Joins groups on it. I am in a few web dev. groups and we have discussions, people share links, ask questions, etc.
homakov · 9 years ago
Dev groups on linkedin? A abandoned phpbb forum from 2010 is a better option!
mordocai · 9 years ago
Last time I joined one of those it was filled with spam and terrible articles. May have just been the particular group I suppose.
tobltobs · 9 years ago
I didn't know about this crazy new regulatory requirements until now. Quoting from an article [1] describing the new law:

> “When collecting personal data, including through information and the internet telecommunications network, the operator is required to provide a record that the systematization, accumulation, storage, updating and retrieval of personal data of citizens of the Russian Federation, is held on databases located in the territory of the Russian Federation.”

I could imagine that complying to this regulation wont be worthwhile for most companies.

Edit: The interesting thing is, that the law seems not to forbid to store the data outside of Russia, it "just" dictates that the data has to be stored in Russia also.

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/02/russia-moves-to-ban-online...

togus · 9 years ago
> The interesting thing is, that the law seems not to forbid to store the data outside of Russia, it "just" dictates that the data has to be stored in Russia also.

Correct! I was on a team trying to architect a solution for this and the requirements was really diffuse. We ended up doing a DB "replication" (via triggers) to a Russian cloud provider after the data had been committed in a european data center. The lawyers signed off on it but there were no clear guidelines from the Ministry of Communication (http://minsvyaz.ru/) on what was OK from an tech implementation view.

However, I feel that the best solution for solving it was to have all Russian traffic routed through something like a reverse web proxy which would first write the data to servers located in Russia or fail the request.

ivan_gammel · 9 years ago
Since you may not reliably determine the citizenship via traffic routes, probably, it's better to ask user during signup about his country (simple pre-filled "Where are you from?" question, true answer on which is required by ToS) and then route his data through a native (Russian, Chinese etc) server, which can store it and "request" further processing overseas (this fulfills all the requirements of the law, including both storage and primary processing).

Deleted Comment

AlfeG · 9 years ago
As a contractor outside of EU/USA I stuggle a lot to handle those regulations for PII(personal identify information). We have no rights to transfer even a single bit of PII out of EU/USA networks.

So I just don't understand, why it's such a news after all.

tobltobs · 9 years ago
Apple and Oranges. You still can transfer the data out of Russia, you just have to "give" them a copy.
Sacho · 9 years ago
Aren't these crazy new regulatory requirements only a step up from the ones in place in the EU[0]?

[0]http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/international-tr...

cr0sh · 9 years ago
I wonder if there is any requirement that the data be readable? I mean, you could store it in encrypted format, but keep the keys outside of Russia...
optimuspaul · 9 years ago
it would be foolish to not encrypt the data at rest and probably just as silly to keep the keys in the same location.
devoply · 9 years ago
At the end of the day, creating many of these services is trivial. Creating a LinkedIn clone is trivial, and one will pop up in Russia giving some Russian owners profit and creating jobs for Russians. So how it's bad for the Russian economy, or the economy of any country to do this, is beyond me. On the other hand, dictatorships and capitalist democracies love to gather as much information as they can on their citizens, so it will allow Russians to get more information on their citizens. Which may be bad for some of them.
tobltobs · 9 years ago
> Creating a LinkedIn clone is trivial

Sure, but reaching a critical mass isn't. And for Russian freelancers looking for work outside of Russia a Russian LinkedIn isn't helpful. Maybe the problems with this regulation will be more obvious if a service like Github is blocked.

ivan_gammel · 9 years ago
LinkedIn clone already exists for quite a long time. The professionali.ru service even copied the original design when it was launched. Not successful. :)

The real alternative - startup MoiKrug.ru ("my circle"), that was launched in mid-2000s - was purchased by Yandex, made irrelevant by lack of clear strategy and finally sold to some other investor.

nkrisc · 9 years ago
It's not about the economy, it's about control. Give them control or get out. Eventually the only companies left are those that will acquiesce to Russian demands.
frozenport · 9 years ago
Because a large part of the Russian software market is overseas.and many developers work on contract. Further, this helps the Kremlin's agenda which has lead to economic stagnation, and the average gdp of Russians dropping below that of China.
pavel_lishin · 9 years ago
I wonder what sort of onus is on the operators to determine the citizenship of its users. How do I know that Andrey Zhukov is a citizen of the Russian Federation? Does a Russian name and a home address of Saint Petersburg suffice?
baybal2 · 9 years ago
They don't. That's the trick
JumpCrisscross · 9 years ago
> I could imagine that complying to this regulation wont be worthwhile for most companies.

In all likelihood, a crony-backed service handling this for foreign tech companies doing business in Russia will emerge.

LeonidBugaev · 9 years ago
Worth noticing that court blocked only HTTP version "http://www.linkedin.com/", HTTPS works just fine :)

However some providers, who had no smart hardware, may block by IP instead of URL, and https version will be blocked as well (not my case).

degorov · 9 years ago
Already not true as of 2016-11-18 10:50 MSK. All protocols/ports should be blocked by ISP's for both www and apex.
hal9000xp · 9 years ago
As a Russian citizen, I used LinkedIn heavily to find jobs in Europe (along with stackoverflow.com/jobs). I keep a lot of contacts there (e.g. former colleagues and European recruiters, some of them are very helpful).

I found it's alarming that LinkedIn is blocked in Russia. Blocking LinkedIn significantly reduces chances to find a job in Europe.

But I expected that since I watched closely on new laws restricting internet freedom in Russia.

Official motivation behind this law is to prevent US spying on Russian citizens (this law was proposed after Snowden's scandal).

Of course, this motivation was a lie as everything else which came out of dirty rotten mouths of nasty Kremlin bastards.

The real motivation is that the Kremlin loves to spy on its own citizens. And they already did that for a long time.

The problem is that these anti-freedom laws do bother only very small percentage of Russians. The rest of Russia won't even notice if Kremlin completely shuts down access to the global internet. Heck, the majority of Russians doesn't even bother to learn elementary English!

Stupid people buy everything Kremlin tells them, including version about protecting Russian citizens from US NSA.

The general principle is that any government is constantly trying to expand itself and limit citizen's freedoms. The only force which can prevent government from endlessly limiting citizen's freedoms is the majority of citizens (definitely not a minority of non-rich citizens). Every freedom above what masses asking for is only at mercy of the government's bueracrats.

It means that in absolutely any country masses fully deserve their government.

I wrote more details about this principle here:

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-living-in-totalitarian-s...

So I consider myself as a part of absolute tiny minority of Russian citizens which has no voice at all (thanks to backward masses).

That's why I left Russia and I hope forever!

I think LinkedIn could be unblocked if LinkedIn agrees to meet these crazy requirements. Even if LinkedIn would be unblocked, it won't change sad state of freedoms in Russia.

P.S. I hope to get rid of toxic Russian citizenship in the future.

SanFranManDan · 9 years ago
> That's why I left Russia and I hope forever!

> dirty rotten mouths of nasty Kremlin bastards

> Heck, the majority of Russians doesn't even bother to learn elementary English!

> Stupid people buy everything Kremlin tells them, including version about protecting Russian citizens from US NSA.

> thanks to backward masses

> P.S. I hope to get rid of toxic Russian citizenship in the future.

I think the only thing toxic here is how you write and view other humans and your fellow countrymen as inferior beings.

I have no Russian heritage, but I lived in rural cities around Russia for a year and was there another 6 months in Moscow after Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia is definitely much different from the Western world and there are a lot of things I disagree with, but I would never call anyone stupid for supporting Putin or the government.

Calling folks stupid and backward for supporting stuff you dont support is just you thinking you are better than everyone else when you are not. Don't be a dick because some people are less fortunate than you and didn't have an opportunity to learn critical thinking. Even people much smarter than you might support what you don't like. The world isn't black and white.

You are in for a rude awakening if you believe that other governments don't lie to their citizens. Whatever government you currently support and get your new citizenship from, you are a pawn and part of the "backward masses" for whatever fucked up scheme that government is cooking up to screw you over.

hal9000xp · 9 years ago
This majority is totally fine to imprison unwanted minorities. This majority is totally fine to restrict my freedoms. This majority thinks they are right because they are majority.

So in short, the majority asks me to sacrifice myself for their sake because I'm in minority and they are in majority.

If so, f##k them!

P.S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged

Sakes · 9 years ago
> I think the only thing toxic here is how you write and view other humans and your fellow countrymen as inferior beings.

Eh, might be toxic. Might be a natural human response to seeing the majority of his countrymen accept propaganda without question. You don't know this guy. For me his comment read more like a frustrated individual than someone that thinks he is superior.

I imagine similar trends can be found in many countries, including the US. The desire to belong is strong, and sometimes it's in our best interest to think less and cheer more.

prodmerc · 9 years ago
Nah, having lived in such a country (ex-USSR), I'm pretty confident to call most of who still lives there stupid as fuck in regards to the bigger picture.

When you live with such people long enough but still can't understand what the flying fuck is everyone thinking, then it's either you're insane or them.

Sometimes it turns out it's them. 50% of the world's population is literally dumber than the average.

jimbokun · 9 years ago
" Don't be a dick because some people are less fortunate than you and didn't have an opportunity to learn critical thinking."

This is just a bit more polite way of calling them stupid.

jerry40 · 9 years ago
This is exactly why here in Russia people generally do not like so called "liberals". Try to understand a person who feels himself as he's at the next evolution stage. There is no any chance that the majority votes for him or party he represents or supports. Unfortunately, such persons associate themself with democracy, what automatically discredits this word in our country.
Kepler-327b · 9 years ago
It sounds like you have the Curse of Knowledge.

Take a look at this experiment, it shows that what is self-evident to you may not be as self-evident to others.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/83l/overcoming_the_curse_of_knowledg...

"In 1990, Elizabeth Newton did a fascinating psychology experiment: She paired participants into teams of two: one tapper and one listener. The tappers picked one of 25 well-known songs and would tap out the rhythm on a table. Their partner - the designated listener - was asked to guess the song. How do you think they did?

Not well. Of the 120 songs tapped out on the table, the listeners only guessed 3 of them correctly - a measly 2.5 percent. But get this: before the listeners gave their answer, the tappers were asked to predict how likely their partner was to get it right. Their guess? Tappers thought their partners would get the song 50 percent of the time. You know, only overconfident by a factor of 20. What made the tappers so far off?

They lost perspective because they were "cursed" with the additional knowledge of the song title.Chip and Dan Heath use the story in their book Made to Stick to introduce the term:

    "The problem is that tappers have been given knowledge (the song title) that makes it impossible for them to imagine what it's like to lack that knowledge. When they're tapping, they can't imagine what it's like for the listeners to hear isolated taps rather than a song. This is the Curse of Knowledge. Once we know something, we find it hard to imagine what it was like not to know it. Our knowledge has "cursed" us. And it becomes difficult or us to share our knowledge with others, because we can't readily re-create our listeners' state of mind.""

kovrik · 9 years ago
I am a Russian too, moved to New Zealand. I was talking to my colleague from Russia via Linkedin, he was asking me about moving to NZ, getting the visa and so on. But now he can't read my response...sigh
kovrik · 9 years ago
Update: no, he has just responded, says that LinkedIn still works fine, probably they are negotiating or something.
yankoff · 9 years ago
get a VPN
magic_quotes · 9 years ago
> Heck, the majority of Russians doesn't even bother to learn elementary English!

I'm not necessary disagreeing, but why should they? I mean, it is obviously useful, but it doesn't directly translate to quality of life improvement.

vacri · 9 years ago
It certainly indirectly translates to it though. English + internet = tons more information. English + travel = far more destinations. English + business = far more international opportunities.

For example, want to open up some business in Germany? You're going to have an easier time speaking either German or English than if you just speak Russian. Swap in Chinese/French/Spanish/Arabic if you like, but all of these still take a back seat to English (at the moment).

kovrik · 9 years ago
You are right, English is almost useless in Russia.

It IS useful if you work in IT and have to read docs, but basic English is enough for that.

abandonliberty · 9 years ago
>The general principle is that any government is constantly trying to expand itself and limit citizen's freedoms. The only force which can prevent government from endlessly limiting citizen's freedoms is the majority of citizens (definitely not a minority of non-rich citizens). Every freedom above what masses asking for is only at mercy of the government's bueracrats.

The fundamental issue affecting all governments and organizations is that they select for Machiavellian or power-growing behaviours. An individual not maximizing power would lose to one who does, as greater power can buy more allies and followers.

There is a reason we see these outcomes in almost every country. It is emergent behaviour. Blaming the people - or even the politicians - will not help. It is our structures that are inherently flawed; you can't expect people to act against their own interests.

If you would like to know more I'd recommend starting with CGPGrey's video, rules for rulers, or visiting my prior comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12880180

This is a fundamental force that affects the entire world. Its impact on our lives is greater than any new technology.

All the 'bad actions' by governments are understandable in this framework. Actions on climate change, freedom, privacy, etc.

We need to solve this.

prodmerc · 9 years ago
> It means that in absolutely any country masses fully deserve their government.

Pretty much.

DominikR · 9 years ago
Why should Russia allow a US company to mine private data about its citizens on a large scale when it is known that the US government basically can force any US company to hand over any data it desires.

That's why they have passed a law whereby private data from social networks about its citizens has to be stored within Russia and must not be transmitted to any other country.

Linkedin knew that but they ignored it, probably because it didn't make economic sense for them

You can argue if it is acceptable or not for a government to step in and prevent foreign governments from acquiring such data about its population, but calling people stupid like you did frankly makes _you_ look stupid.

tibu · 9 years ago
The question here is whether the government should deal with personal data access rights or the people themselves.

Dead Comment

vladimir-y · 9 years ago
You can easily get VPN and continue to use Linkedin if you need to.

> Kremlin loves to spy on its own citizens. And they already did that for a long time.

Most of the governments do love to spy on its own citizens, for obvious reasons.

hal9000xp · 9 years ago
> You can easily get VPN and continue to use Linkedin if you need to.

VPN is only temporary cure. I think soon or later Kremlin will try to crack down use of VPN when it becomes popular.

> Most of the governments do love to spy on its own citizens, for obvious reasons.

And I'm not fond of most governments and even notion of big intrusive government.

jwtadvice · 9 years ago
> The real motivation is that the Kremlin loves to spy on its own citizens. And they already did that for a long time.

This doesn't prevent or help Russia from spying on its own citizens.

I get that you are anxious. But the traffic that travels from your computer to servers outside of Russia is just as easy to spy on for Russian intelligence services as the case where the servers are located inside the country.

It does, however, make it more difficult for the US to spy on Russian citizens, which it has been caught trying to do.

nothrabannosir · 9 years ago
But the traffic that travels from your computer to servers outside of Russia is just as easy to spy on for Russian intelligence services as the case where the servers are located inside the country.

Ehh.. no? TLS protects the data against snooping, but only borders protect you from warrants. Russia based servers are subject to Russian law and warrants.

int_19h · 9 years ago
No, it does make a huge difference, actually. If the traffic is travelling to outside servers, it can be encrypted, and there's no mitigation that they can do to get access. But if it ends up on the servers inside the country, they control the endpoint where it has to be decrypted to be processed. Then it becomes a kind of a reverse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SORM#SORM-2 set-up, with every prominent service provider having a preinstalled tap for the agencies.

Deleted Comment

wruza · 9 years ago
And you buy everything various conspiracy theorists and layman politicians sell to you. We have some issues, right, but your generalizing 'stupid' attitude is really better off this land, no matter who's in power.
EugeneOZ · 9 years ago
Please block as many services as possible in Russia, it will motivate our people to change government (by force, maybe) faster.
jwtadvice · 9 years ago
Similarly, please continue to leak as many illegal activities of the United States government as possible, it will motivate our people to change government (by force, maybe) faster.
ivan_gammel · 9 years ago
That was quick - it's already not accessible from Megafon cellular networks.

LinkedIn is quite popular among international HRs hiring software developers in Russia. HRs may still have access, but the workforce now does not. What was the point not to comply with regulatory requirements? Too small market? Too hard to throw some user data to a server in some Moscow datacenter for persistent storage?

lisivka · 9 years ago
Risk of leaking of databases, which are vital for their business, is too high, IMHO. Did you remember closed government databases, with private information, written on CD and sold at Gorbushka for pennies?
QUFB · 9 years ago
LinkedIn doesn't seem to mind if their Chinese databases are leaked; they complied with similar requirements there. If the market in Russia were as large as China, I'm certain they would make a compromise too.
ivan_gammel · 9 years ago
That risk isn't bigger than anywhere else since we are talking about private company really concerned about security. How many leaks were there through government channels from Mail.ru Group or Yandex? None, and the reason is that, given all necessary security measures taken, you cannot just copy such a database to CD. The access will be limited to few well-paid people in IT Ops, the database can be secured using a solution certified by FSB (and even if FSB will hack it, these guys do not expose themselves by selling CDs on Gorbushka).
homakov · 9 years ago
From Russia, can confirm. Finally roscomnadzor is preventing spam!
AlfeG · 9 years ago
Unfortunatly, I still receieve emails from linkedin...

Dead Comment

degorov · 9 years ago
Actually, you probably will still get emails from them, but won't be able to open unsubscribe links.
meshr · 9 years ago
Roscomnadzor will prevent using Internet one day with applauding russians. For what to herds are the gifts of freedom? Pushkin
rdiddly · 9 years ago
LinkedIn didn't just "get blocked" out of the blue. They got blocked after many warnings and plenty of time during which they refused to take basic steps to comply with the laws of a sovereign nation. Just set up some servers in a Russian datacenter and be done with it! But instead they blew it off, or created the impression of blowing it off, by going running to the Russian bureaucrats on the last day -- as if the whole thing were a big surprise!

If you wanted to insult them, show them you didn't take them seriously and didn't make a plan to comply with their laws, I can't think of a better way to do it than going to them on the last day to ask for more time. If I were those bureaucrats I would take especial relish in cutting them off. (And that's aside from the fact that it's a worthless site in the first place.)

Sometimes when you get Tased it's because of crooked cops, but most of the time it's because you're being an ass, disregarding the laws of the people, despite many warnings, and not taking simple steps to comply.

meshr · 9 years ago
LinkedIn denied to play by rules of idiots. Shame on Google etc who supports and promotes censorship by accepting the rules of censorship. Internet ends when every country will start to force everyone else to do what they think is good.