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mcphilip · 9 years ago
It's looking like it might be a Brexit moment for the USA. The filter bubble echo chamber of social media and 24/7 coverage of celebrities stumping for Clinton is going to leave a lot of people shocked tomorrow when/if it's officially given to Trump.
Alex3917 · 9 years ago
I had a feeling this was going to happen today when I saw that virtually everyone in my Facebook feed and everyone on the streets of NYC was supporting Hillary. Every extra +1 in NYC is pretty much going to be -1 in a swing state.

As one of the hundreds of folks banned from DailyKos for being too liberal, I've been spending some time reading the Trump subreddit, and I have to say that Hillary has run perhaps the worst campaign in memory:

- Rigged the primaries against Bernie, disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of voters, and cheated during the debates.

- Spent 5x more on paid media advertising, and got all the social media sites to censor pro-Trump messages.

- Paid shills to attack anyone who disagrees with her policies on social media.

- It looks like there is a good chance her campaign was behind the attempt to frame Assange for pedophilia.

- Made gender her primary selling point with her #imwithher slogan. (Imagine if she had gone with something like #TheNextAmerica instead, to contrast with MAGA.)

- Accusing Trump of saying and doing tons of things he didn’t actually say or do.

- Characterizing Trump supporters as racists, bigots, deplorables, etc.

- Paying people to incite violence at Trump rallies

- Accusing Russia of hacking her campaign’s emails when in fact it was oedesta who gave out his password to a phishing site… twice… without two-factor enabled.

- Having Bill meet with Loretta Lynch during the email investigation. Then appointing Podesta's close friend to run the email investigation which resulted in a last minute FBI coup forcing Comey to make a statement.

I didn't vote for Trump, I don't support Trump, and I'm as horrified that he's going to be President as anyone else. But I have to say the actions of the DNC, Hillary, her campaign, and many of her supporters have been egregiously bad.

And now everything is super fucked.

edit: For everyone downvoting me, go turn on The Young Turks livestream and hear it from Cenk.

75j · 9 years ago
Yep. Trump is a monster, but this feels sort of good knowing how Clinton and her supporters acted. If only people could have seen the light about the Clintons a year ago, then maybe there would've been better choices today.

And remember! The blame for a Trump presidency lies with none other than Hillary Clinton. She's the one that cheated a popular opponent in the primaries, that strategized to promote Trump during the Republican debates, that infiltrated the media and turned journalists into self-admitted "hacks", and she's the one that interjected herself into the presidential race despite knowing that her "scandals" -- electoral corruption, mishandling of classified information, pay-for-play at the Clinton foundation, Bill's history of child rape, etc. -- all disqualify her as a viable opponent to Trump.

RandomOpinion · 9 years ago
Not surprised; a day of reckoning was bound to come for the left. Consider that even if Trump had lost, his power base would still have existed afterward. Trump is not the problem, Trump is a symptom.

The American left took its eyes off of what's important, namely the working class, and instead spent its time and political capital on frivolous[0] causes. This is a wake-up call to refocus.

[0] Lots of things some might consider important are frivolous when you're living paycheck-to-paycheck.

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basch · 9 years ago
This isnt a day of reckoning for the Left. He hijacked the GOP against its own will and destroyed the DNC. That's a collapse of two establishment parties, not one.

Dead Comment

pastProlog · 9 years ago
One person who has been clear-headed about this for weeks is Michael Moore. Michigan and Wisconsin were supposed to be in the bag for Hillary, but that looks like where the surprise swing is coming from. Moore said from on the ground it felt like white working class people suffering from deindustrialization felt Hillary would do little for them, and might pick up the Molotov cocktail of Trump to throw into the system. His comments have been in lots of pro-Trump videos for weeks. Looks like he was right.
M_Grey · 9 years ago
Then you'll see the economic fallout, and then it's just four years of misery, and people who can afford to, getting the hell out.
morgante · 9 years ago
Where is there to "get out" to though? Economically the US has been outperforming the rest of the world recently.

I'm especially worried because the developer job market is a lot worse outside the US than inside it. I genuinely don't know where to go (recession seems inevitable).

ythl · 9 years ago
Come on, at least give the guy a chance before bashing the future economy.
MichaelBurge · 9 years ago
Canada's immigration site is down due to volume.

It won't happen, but it'd be hilarious if the Democrats planned to rig future elections by importing millions of immigrants to vote for them, and they instead end up emigrating by the millions to Canada thus swinging it in the opposite direction.

flukus · 9 years ago
Everyone mentions Brexit but I have to wonder it the roots of this goes back to the 90's. Remember the battle of seattle and the likes?

I can think of a few other more local (to Australia) events that seem to make sense when you factor in this bubbling discontentment.

M_Grey · 9 years ago
The roots of this are 8 years of a black man in the White House.

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chiaro · 9 years ago
To be fair, the polls were consistently in the opposite direction. 538 had clinton at 70%, PEC at 99%, everyone else somewhere in between. It's a black swan event, bubble or no.
inimino · 9 years ago
A 30% probability event coming to pass isn't a black swan event. This term is unfortunately overused for anything unexpected but that isn't what it means.
lucio · 9 years ago
It is a black swan event? or there are significant problems with the polls?
humanrebar · 9 years ago
A new wrinkle on the Bradley effect, maybe?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

trhway · 9 years ago
LA times had it for trump. They had their own weighting. Their results when adjusted for commonly accepted weighting matched the common poll average. So it is in the weighting.
threesixandnine · 9 years ago
At this time we still cannot be sure who will win but all this to me looks like a big fuck you. It looks like a middle finger and it shows how disconnected media moguls, establishment, bureaucracy and "righteous" leftists-democracts are with the people on the ground.

It went so far that people who would vote for Trump lied in polls just so that they don't receive strange looks or something worse. That is the fear above mentioned "establishment" instilled into people. And it's not just US...

The meltdown of the "media" and shock is just pure funny.

Let's forget about all the controversy around Clinton family. I will just leave this[0] here.

[0]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1582795/Hillary-Cl...

throwanem · 9 years ago
> It went so far that people who would vote for Trump lied in polls just so that they don't receive strange looks or something worse.

Hi there.

I swear to God, it's like coming out all over again. That this should be true of any political stance is utterly absurd, but, hey, here we are.

Dead Comment

lake99 · 9 years ago
> The meltdown of the "media" and shock is just pure funny.

Oh good. It's not just me, there are others who want Trump to win just for the lulz. I don't care for his presidency, but Clinton belongs behind bars right now. I hope Trump wins and then does something to land him behind bars too. That would be my preferred outcome. The media has to change too, but I don't think a Trump presidency would be capable of bringing that about.

petre · 9 years ago
Well, you can't blame them. They really wanted Hillary to win, while conveniently trying to manipulate the public at the same time.
ant6n · 9 years ago
Bernie was leftist. Clinton, not so much.

It's strange, as an outside observe I see hate spewed against giant swaths of the population (the 'establishment', the 'leftists', the muslims, the hispanics, the blacks or whatever) from Trump supporters. But those same people keep complaining about the hate they perceive from the left or whatever.

It's bizarre. Are people supposed to embrace the racism, sexism and bigotry?

m_mueller · 9 years ago
I think people have more problems with a candidate trying to shut down uncomfortable opinions through the back door than with a candidate who's openly sexist and xenophobic.
threesixandnine · 9 years ago
Nice try at straw man.

A lot of things can be misinterpreted if you already have your mind in the specific drawer.

You remember when Trump said that Putin is strong leader and afterwards that if he is the president US won't be weak anymore? Well, he actually meant that Obama is weak and not that Putin is strong. But most of the media and people interpreted that as a thumbs up for Putin. Actually it was thumbs down - as in - it won't be so easy with me.

Rexxar · 9 years ago
Nice but the three top gauges are moving suspiciously fast. Do they add a little random the the real number to give a sort of error margin visualisation ?
the_duke · 9 years ago
I just checked.

They gauges moving around is definitely random.

The updates are done with a "president.json" file, fetched every 15 seconds, but the timestamp in the json data only changes every 30-180 seconds.

So all of the movement is just random jitter to make it engaging.

Maybe a bit disingenuous.

(Note: I first thought they might be using websockets, but no WS connection is made on the page. Only a ajax fetch of president.json)

yankyou · 9 years ago
I'd venture further to say it's a perversion of "news" for a news site to be injecting garbage into the data for entertainment purposes.
Steko · 9 years ago
I think the idea is to indicate these numbers have error bands:

The estimates below include an estimate of uncertainty. We expect the uncertainty around these estimates to narrow, especially after races are called.

I don't see any reason why we'd expect the uncertainty to be updated more than every 30-180 seconds or why any of this is the least bit "disingenuous".

yoloswagins · 9 years ago
Check the websocket connection. Haven't noticed anything interesting coming down the pipe yet, but NYT is using it.
pat_space · 9 years ago
Thanks the_duke!
susw · 9 years ago
Disable jitter by running the following in console:

  require('forecast/jitter').get = function(){return 0;}

farnsworth · 9 years ago
Increase the jitter amount with the following:

  require('forecast/jitter').get = function(){return Math.random()*10;}

the_duke · 9 years ago
Haha, awesome find.

Did you just dig through the code or are you a NYT dev?

Tinyyy · 9 years ago
I think it's an interesting way to represent uncertainty; it seems pretty intuitive to me.
ajmurmann · 9 years ago
It is a intuitive visualization, but also makes it hard to tell when things actually change.
artursapek · 9 years ago
Yeah, it looks hilariously fake.
yoloswagins · 9 years ago
Looking though the source code, they have a jitter amount. It adds a little visual interest.
eltoozero · 9 years ago
A decent mechanism to minimize page refreshes at the very least.

Periodic real updates with something more expressive than a spinner, which have never been convincing enough to keep me from mashing reload.

pat_space · 9 years ago
I thought the same thing, would like to see the background calculations running all three.
revelation · 9 years ago
That's random, there is no network activity. Screams "black pattern", who on earth randomizes a graph on election results. Come on.
artursapek · 9 years ago
NYT is not known for accuracy
andr · 9 years ago
There is a proliferation of predictive models and their outcomes vary widely. LA Times consistently predicted a Trump win, FiveThirtyEight was down to a coin toss a few times, while The New York Times was persistently pro-Hillary. While those models were meant to help people make sense of the large number of individual polls, now we need models to make sense of the models.
dj-wonk · 9 years ago
Yes, and this is a good thing.

It is better than what we do, informally. We all use models (of some sort) when we process information; e.g. I discount certain publications and value others. But few people actually make their models explicit and ask others to critique them.

Making a model public and explicit is a great first step. Building more models on top is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Animats · 9 years ago
Dow futures down 752. Canada's immigration site down.

The Trump transition team, in rented office space in Washington, just became very important. They're Trump's HR department, and have to recruit the several thousand people the President gets to appoint. Because Trump isn't tightly connected to the "Republican establishment", the usual suspects aren't in line for those jobs. So where do they come from? Business?

Will Peter Thiel go to Washington? Secretary of Commerce, perhaps?

keithnz · 9 years ago
Why isn't the president decided by the percentage of votes? Seems to me, there are a lot voters whose vote essentially are useless?

I kind of understand the house and senate being more regional representation, but the president kind of represents all Americans, no?

shaftoe · 9 years ago
The United States is/was a collection of independent state governments. At one point, many state governments selected the electoral college representatives from their states. Until it was amended, states governments chose their senators.

There are political and historical reasons for having the system work this way, much like how the ordering of primaries is a contentious and complicated arrangement.

castratikron · 9 years ago
It was originally designed to stop stupid people from throwing the election. We'll see tonight if it still works.
75j · 9 years ago
Which stupid people are you referring to?
humanrebar · 9 years ago
No, it was originally a compromise between having congress pick the president and a pure popular vote.
unclenoriega · 9 years ago
Wouldn't we not know until the Electoral College meets?

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up_so_floating · 9 years ago
You are not alone; many Americans have the same question.
stass · 9 years ago
And the answer can be easily found in e.g. Federalist papers and even Wikipedia.
quadrangle · 9 years ago
Yeah, the entire system is screwed up by this insane electoral college. But majority-rule is insane even on a popular vote. The only good way to elect consensus candidates who serve everyone well is to implement score voting http://scorevoting.net/
PDoyle · 9 years ago
I'm not sure it's the only way. There are ranked-ballot systems that are good too, like Single Transferable Vote.

The point is, first-past-the-post has almost every possible flaw you can have in a voting system.

JoshTriplett · 9 years ago
Several systems work well for electing a good consensus candidate in a single-winner election, including Condorcet, Approval, and various forms of range voting.
protomyth · 9 years ago
I leave work and I see Clinton is the probable winner. I drive home, get some dinner, and I get a text from the WSJ that stock futures are crashing because Trump might win?!? What the friggin hell pollsters? I get the feeling some explaining on the part of the newspapers and new networks is in order.
tedunangst · 9 years ago
Well, the reason we still have the election instead of just polling people is because the polls aren't always accurate.
Jtsummers · 9 years ago
Polls don't tell you who will vote.

60% of a state may be for one candidate, but if only 80% of them go out to vote, the other candidate will win.

That's what we're seeing here today.

3apo · 9 years ago
For poll statistics this is like cigarettes not causing cancer moment
Arkaad · 9 years ago
Wouldn't that influence the voters?
refurb · 9 years ago
Not sure why you're getting downvoted.

I know in Canada they have a media blackout for each timezone until polls close (or are almost closed). The assumption is people will change their vote based on early counts.

However, that may have changed with the internet since you can't stop anyone from getting early results.

Edit: yup, looks like Canada stopped that back in 2014 [1]

[1]http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/election-reforms-include-end...

wyldfire · 9 years ago
> The assumption is people will change their vote based on early counts.

I think the most likely problem is not votes being swayed by popularity -- probaly moreso is turnout being impacted by a large lead.