If you're looking for a mechanical ergonomic keyboard that you can also easily take with you, I suggest taking a look at Atreus[0], a 42-key column-staggered keyboard.
I got one a while back. Haven't gotten around to publishing my build log, but building the keyboard was a lot of fun.
With the somewhat steep learning curve out of the way, I've been really enjoying it and gone are the days of wrist pain.
Oh, and I'm in no way affiliated with Phil or the project, just a very happy user dropping his 2¢ here.
The Atreus is a fun project to build and the fact that the controller source code is freely available is great fun. I've built mine with Matias keys and they do feel better than the wobbly and less smooth action found in the Cherry brown keys.
I have a few Advantage keyboards as well and in my mind they serve different purposes.
The Atreus is a great portable lapboard and works really well when you use it in that regard. FYI: The lack of extra keys lend this keyboard to Emacs programmers; You'll be chording on this keyboard significantly more than you might expect.
For a non-portable ergonomic keyboard, the size of the Advantage and extra keys offer a more comfortable typing experience when used on a desk. These keyboards are pretty damn huge though and will fill a backpack without any extra help.
That's true and perhaps surprisingly enough, despite the small size I don't find myself bending my wrists when typing.
The fact that the layout is column-staggered helps a lot with this too: I don't have to bend my wrists sideways to reach the "corners" of the keyboard; I just move my hands back and forth.
That looks really, really interesting - but the shipping outside of the US is a bit scary/expensive. Any idea if the creator teamed up with a European person/store as well?
as the design is open, it'll be cheaper/easier to cut the plates yourself and handwire the matrix. but you do need quite a bit of time (1 or 2 days to fully assemble it).
Originally bought because of wrist pain, I've had the kinesis advantage for 16 years, I'm on my third one and I've worn out keys on each one from so much use. Luckily they shipped me new switches for free and allowed me to switch the myself (at my request due to timing). Fantastic service and product. I really do wear them out.
With that said, all three exhibited the sticky modifier problem. I'm used to it but it always made me wonder if the internals were going bad.
That looks sort of interesting, but as a programmer, the awkward positioning of tab and return, and the need to use modifier keys to get the directional arrows, {}, and [] just completely kills it for me.
No modifier keys necessary for the directional arrows, if you mean the ones that move the cursor? They're under your pointer and middle finger on each side. Having return key (and backspace, space, and mod keys) always directly under your strongest fingers ends up feeling really natural and efficient, in my experience.
My experience with remapping my mind to the Advantage2 keyboard was that it took a week to be reasonably usable, and a month before I was back to my normal flow. All wrist pain gone. It is really nice to have many of your most used keys on your thumbs instead of your pinkies.
They're certainly expensive ($350), but no-one who finds it helps with their Carpal Tunnel (like me) would say it's overpriced. Think of its price in the context of medical devices :)
This keyboard style is absolutely amazing. I had pre-carpal style pain in my hands for years and tried every other keyboard out there, including all the ergo ones that came highly recommended. This is the only one that actually stopped the pain for me. 10+ years of satisfaction here - I've got one at every PC I use regularly now.
The new non-mushy F-keys are a nice improvement, but honestly not sure that's worth replacing my existing ones since they're built like tanks already.
I got mine 12 years ago, still have the same one as my primary keyboard. I replaced the enter key about 3 years ago, because I'm pretty hard on keyboards, frequently breaking space bars, etc., within a year before I got a kinesis. 2 weeks ago, I was having an issue with a row of keys going unresponsive intermittently. I emailed support and they sent back detailed instructions for checking inside the keyboard, despite the product being 12 years old. The issue went away before I could try to fix it.
I don't have any other computer equipment that's as tough.
Similar here. My oldest Kinesis I've had for 14 years and it was used when I bought it (this was before they were USB). My daily use one is from 2003 and I don't see any reason to think it won't last another 13 years.
The F-keys are poor, but I don't use them all that often, so it hasn't bothered me much; that's the only feature on the "what's new" that seems a big deal.
Kinesis keyboard is some of the best money I've spent on computing over the years. One downside: I now look like a moron when I go to type on a regular keyboard in a conference room or at someone else's desk.
While I'm pretty new to the game (only been a user for about 4 years), I still love my Kinesis. Prior to getting a Kinesis, I was buying a fresh MS Ergo 4000 once every 6-8 months because the etchings in the keys would wear off, the membranes would get gunky, certain keys would get sticky or soft-to-the-press, etc. The Kinesis has permanently resolved that class of issues for me (and more than paid for itself just in the cost of replacement keyboards, not to mention heretofore staving off the need for carpal tunnel treatment).
I convinced a friend to get a Kinesis last year. I did a thorough cleaning of mine around the same time and was pleased to see that after a little elbow grease, the brand new unit and my aged unit were practically indistinguishable.
Kinesis keyboards are tough and one of the few buy-it-for-life-priced devices that actually seems like it'll never wear out.
The F-keys seem to be the part that aren't built like tanks. I had to replace my Kinesis because my Esc key was wearing out from 6 years of using Vim on the keyboard. (Sure, it convinced me to bind Esc somewhere more convenient, but having Esc not register when you press it is quite frustrating.)
Three pedal one here. Bought by accident but now happily use it with middle one to switch modes using Karabiner and outer two either Cmd/Mouseclick or pgup/down, left/right, scroll, space left/right etc.
I use the 3 pedal foot switch. Left pedal is escape. Right pedal is move to the end of a line in vim. Haven't decided what to do with the middle one yet.
someone made an arcade button mod, positioned on the wrist rest, to function as extra buttons acting as the foot pedals. might be an interesting way to go instead of having to have another peripheral device.
Some of my F keys gave out, and I emailed Kinesis and they told me that the new mechanical F keys can't replace the old ones, because the circuit board is different.
I broke my original, and have been considering a new one. 50 dollars extra to fix those rubbery keys... not store its worth it. Then again I am on windows now, so I end up using the function keys more.
Same, I really like how they're building in the option to put a trackball or trackpad as attachments. Also as an ergodox user, i find the split keyboard more comfortable and allows my wrists to sit straight while typing.
While yes the matrix layout is _way_ better, the downside is that if you ever type on a standard keyboard you are immediately frustrated. I imagine it would depend on your working environment, but for me the combination of using a laptop, working with co-workers, and then using my desk with my awesome ergodox means that I am often fighting my own muscle memory to continue typing at a high rate of speed.
There is something to be said to conforming to what most people have. Splitting the keyboard gives me a good compromise, I can still have my hands in relaxed positions, and while I am not going to be as fast as when I am on just the ergodox ,I gain by being much faster working in the other environments I often find myself in.
Personally I am waiting for the KeyMouse[0], a physically-split keyboard with integrated mouse as part of the keyboard parts, so no need to lift hand from keyboard to perform mousely duties.
Hopefully it is a great product, but I'm wondering if they couldn't have taken it a step further and made the keyboards at an angle to mimic natural arm positions.
I'd pay good money for an Ergo keyboard with mechanical switches. The last decade or so of MS keyboards have been rubber-domed disasters. I cannot type on the things.
I pre-ordered a couple KeyboardIO keyboards, and maybe I can make them work well with a little firmware noodling. Looks like November or later . . . .
Personally, I try to reduce my dependence on the mouse. Occasionally, when my brain is fried from a week of programming, I'll unplug my mouse and do a mouse fast on Friday afternoon to transition more of my workflow to utilize the keyboard.
I code the CODE keyboard right now https://codekeyboards.com
And I especially like the hardware switches to remap some keys.
But the Kindesis SmartSet Programming seems like another level.
The main problem with buying the right keyboard is that you almost never can try it out (i.e. in a store). There are multiple variables, besides the general ergonomic question, mainly:
You want to know how it feels to type, you want to know how it sounds to type (mostly: is it quiet or will you get on your co-worker's nerves?).
I have just bought a Logitech in a store that did not allow me to take it out of the box to try it out. Once I've tried it out at home, I wanted to throw it in the trash immediately. F*ck them for selling like that.
So, if you're looking for a start-up idea: Why not set up an online store with ALL brands (maybe focus on the premium segment which is ergo keyboards, first). Then you ship the customer keyboards to test at home. Once the customer's happy, he returns the last test keyboard and gets a brand new version of it.
If you're in the US Amazon generally lets you return anything for any reason. "I tried it and I didn't like it" would be fine with them. It makes the process a bit slower, with shipping and all, but you could purchase all your candidate keyboards together and then return the one(s) you don't like.
Readit News
I got one a while back. Haven't gotten around to publishing my build log, but building the keyboard was a lot of fun.
With the somewhat steep learning curve out of the way, I've been really enjoying it and gone are the days of wrist pain.
Oh, and I'm in no way affiliated with Phil or the project, just a very happy user dropping his 2¢ here.
[0]: https://atreus.technomancy.us
I have a few Advantage keyboards as well and in my mind they serve different purposes.
The Atreus is a great portable lapboard and works really well when you use it in that regard. FYI: The lack of extra keys lend this keyboard to Emacs programmers; You'll be chording on this keyboard significantly more than you might expect.
For a non-portable ergonomic keyboard, the size of the Advantage and extra keys offer a more comfortable typing experience when used on a desk. These keyboards are pretty damn huge though and will fill a backpack without any extra help.
- Design (GPLv3): https://github.com/technomancy/atreus
- Current firmware (GPLv2+): https://github.com/technomancy/tmk_keyboard/tree/atreus
- Older firmware, great for learning (GPLv3): https://github.com/technomancy/atreus-firmware
There's a lot to consider when shopping for an ergonomic keyboard:
https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/the-model-01-an-heir...
The fact that the layout is column-staggered helps a lot with this too: I don't have to bend my wrists sideways to reach the "corners" of the keyboard; I just move my hands back and forth.
With that said, all three exhibited the sticky modifier problem. I'm used to it but it always made me wonder if the internals were going bad.
In March I preordered https://shop.keyboard.io
I'll be very interested to compare, and if it isn't as good or better, I won't hesitate to order the updated kinesis advantage.
And yes it takes time getting used to. I am faster on regular keyboards.
But with this one I don't have pain.
The new non-mushy F-keys are a nice improvement, but honestly not sure that's worth replacing my existing ones since they're built like tanks already.
I got mine 12 years ago, still have the same one as my primary keyboard. I replaced the enter key about 3 years ago, because I'm pretty hard on keyboards, frequently breaking space bars, etc., within a year before I got a kinesis. 2 weeks ago, I was having an issue with a row of keys going unresponsive intermittently. I emailed support and they sent back detailed instructions for checking inside the keyboard, despite the product being 12 years old. The issue went away before I could try to fix it.
I don't have any other computer equipment that's as tough.
The F-keys are poor, but I don't use them all that often, so it hasn't bothered me much; that's the only feature on the "what's new" that seems a big deal.
Kinesis keyboard is some of the best money I've spent on computing over the years. One downside: I now look like a moron when I go to type on a regular keyboard in a conference room or at someone else's desk.
I convinced a friend to get a Kinesis last year. I did a thorough cleaning of mine around the same time and was pleased to see that after a little elbow grease, the brand new unit and my aged unit were practically indistinguishable.
Kinesis keyboards are tough and one of the few buy-it-for-life-priced devices that actually seems like it'll never wear out.
I am wondering, does anyone here use the foot switches that kinesis makes and in what configuration?
[1] http://www.ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/
While yes the matrix layout is _way_ better, the downside is that if you ever type on a standard keyboard you are immediately frustrated. I imagine it would depend on your working environment, but for me the combination of using a laptop, working with co-workers, and then using my desk with my awesome ergodox means that I am often fighting my own muscle memory to continue typing at a high rate of speed.
There is something to be said to conforming to what most people have. Splitting the keyboard gives me a good compromise, I can still have my hands in relaxed positions, and while I am not going to be as fast as when I am on just the ergodox ,I gain by being much faster working in the other environments I often find myself in.
Engelbart's Violin http://www.loper-os.org/?p=861
Hopefully it is a great product, but I'm wondering if they couldn't have taken it a step further and made the keyboards at an angle to mimic natural arm positions.
[0]: http://www.keymouse.com/
I would be very happy if microsoft on the Ergo 4000 instead of including a stupid, absolutely useless "zoom knob" thing just put a trackpoint there!
http://www.wolfmanzbytes.com/pc/mskeyb1/keyb4lg.jpg
what a bafflingly missed opportunity.
I pre-ordered a couple KeyboardIO keyboards, and maybe I can make them work well with a little firmware noodling. Looks like November or later . . . .
I'm toying the idea of build a clone, but my initial finds show will be more hard/costly than expected:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79603.msg2053482
You want to know how it feels to type, you want to know how it sounds to type (mostly: is it quiet or will you get on your co-worker's nerves?).
I have just bought a Logitech in a store that did not allow me to take it out of the box to try it out. Once I've tried it out at home, I wanted to throw it in the trash immediately. F*ck them for selling like that.
So, if you're looking for a start-up idea: Why not set up an online store with ALL brands (maybe focus on the premium segment which is ergo keyboards, first). Then you ship the customer keyboards to test at home. Once the customer's happy, he returns the last test keyboard and gets a brand new version of it.
As with most stores, I think Amazon returns are meant for actual problems and cases when things really don't work out, not for trying out hardware.