swongel (u/swongel) - Readit News

swongel commented on Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’ vice.com/en/article/v7d7j... · Posted by u/yoelo

jjmorrison · 4 years ago

Google employees unionizing is super hypocritical. If you disagree with the big evil monopoly, then leave and give up the crazy salary. Can't have it both ways. As long as all the smart people stay there, they'll keep being the big evil monopoly. Best case is more placating and pretending.

swongel · 4 years ago

These damn employees, what are they thinking that they could better their employment and lives. They're a bunch of hypocrites for wanting a better piece of the cake of the billion dollar extremely profitable company they built. Won't someone please think of the poor shareholders? /s

swongel commented on Every DoorDash employee, from engineers to CEO, will make deliveries cnn.com/2021/12/28/busine... · Posted by u/brutus1213

ericmay · 4 years ago

> We have a justice system based on reasonable interpretation by judges, which is a bit less "strict" literal interpretation of contracts.

We as in all of Western Europe or for a specific country? What are some examples you've seen where the US has "strict", literal interpretations of contracts that are unreasonable as it relates to employment/the topic at hand? Off the top of my head the only thing that comes to mind immediately is maybe non-competes but I think that's an issue of leverage and not really a contractual issue, and even so it's risky for companies to enforce except for key employees.

> As a start-up you'd hire contractors which you'd pay a much higher fee for, as these wouldn't have the labor protections of employees

Isn't this just sidestepping the protection? And without needing to do an exhaustive list what are the labor protections? I assume there are like a minimum number of paid days off/holidays/vacation, exact job you'll do (though this is still vague to me how it's handled practically) and some protections around being fired/how you are fired?

Is there a big protection for tech workers I'm missing?

> But then again my rent is cheaper, and my insurances are cheaper too, I get PTO and unlimited sick-days, stuff like that. At the end of the day, if I want to make more money and not have many protections (like in the US) I'd become a contractor. (which does come with some strings attached to prevent employers from hiring normal employees like contractors).

My "rent" (mortgage in this case) is pretty cheap and so is my insurance. I work remote for a great company, get PTO, and take it as you need it sick days and stuff like that too. Of course rental rates in certain markets (NY, SF, etc.) are much higher, as is compensation. $250k-$300k for many tech workers. I think that probably compensates for the higher costs though who knows what'll happen with the post-pandemic labor market (2024-2026 or so).

swongel · 4 years ago

It's an interesting topic, I think a comment could't accommodate all the differences between the labor markets.

I'll say this much, our justice systems in western Europe (with the exception of the UK) are based on civil law you could find more about this on Wikipedia to find sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law

When it comes to contractors, yes they have less rights (at-will employment, no PTO, no sick-days etc. etc. etc.) So yes it does side-step labor protections but it's more expensive, also in my country at least contractors are required to get disability insurance and not everyone can be considered a contractor. If a judge finds that a contractor actually more resembles an employer (so not being independent of the company hiring), they will retro-actively be considered an employee. (This has happened with Uber drivers for instance)

Some of the protections employees enjoy over here are:

- Not being fired unless the labor board approves (which required documentation from the employees, and them to follow strict labor rules).

- At least 4 weeks PTO.

- Up to 2 years of continues sick-days, (with a doctors note) (after which you'd get fired and get social security)

- After being fired you'd get 1 month of continued salary for each year you were employed, until you find new work

- Paid Maternity/paternity leave

- The right to bargain for a collective bargaining agreement which allows for additional minimum rights/salaries to be applied to all workers within a field

- The right to ignore your boss after hours unless additional consideration (salary) is offered and time schedules are agreed upon

- The right for employees to have a employee-board whenever there's at least 50 employees within a company/org

- The right for employees to keep their jobs if they become disabled (if possible, judged by the labor board not the employer)

When it comes to costs/salaries, I reckon it'd highly depend on the region/job market/sector.

swongel commented on Every DoorDash employee, from engineers to CEO, will make deliveries cnn.com/2021/12/28/busine... · Posted by u/brutus1213

trixie_ · 4 years ago

Funny how in your world the bad manager from your example would be difficult to fire as well.

swongel · 4 years ago

So? They're employees too, I can handle a bad manager, I can't handle being fired over some bullshit. That manager has a mortgage too, you know?

It's nothing personal, it's business.

swongel commented on Every DoorDash employee, from engineers to CEO, will make deliveries cnn.com/2021/12/28/busine... · Posted by u/brutus1213

ericmay · 4 years ago

How are tech salaries in Western Europe compared to the US?

There are pros and cons. How would you hire someone at a startup? Do you specify they can only write code for the website and then if you need their help with something else they just say "not in my job description"? Eventually you'd just get contracts that have laundry lists of vague responsibilities to get around this and it would just wind up like standard terms of service for websites/electronics where people just sign and take the job. Too much money at stake to not do it and for little gain.

swongel · 4 years ago

We have a justice system based on reasonable interpretation by judges, which is a bit less "strict" literal interpretation of contracts. Mine says "Software development", some collective bargaining agreements have more specific descriptions (to prevent under paying of employees by classifying them as lower salaries jobs).

As a start-up you'd hire contractors which you'd pay a much higher fee for, as these wouldn't have the labor protections of employees.

Salaries for contractors are I guess similar to the US maybe a bit lower, for salaries employees definitely lower than the US (for tech at least).

But then again my rent is cheaper, and my insurances are cheaper too, I get PTO and unlimited sick-days, stuff like that. At the end of the day, if I want to make more money and not have many protections (like in the US) I'd become a contractor. (which does come with some strings attached to prevent employers from hiring normal employees like contractors).

You have a choice over here for both models essentially.

swongel commented on Every DoorDash employee, from engineers to CEO, will make deliveries cnn.com/2021/12/28/busine... · Posted by u/brutus1213

trixie_ · 4 years ago

Great idea. The law should read like the employee cannot be fired if asked to do something not specified in their job description when hired. /s

Maybe we should have laws as well to protect companies from rogue employees do things outside of their job descriptions.

swongel · 4 years ago

Where I'm from (western europe) we have this, but unironically.

Imagine the horror not having to worry over not being able to pay your mortgage or rent whenever your boss or some power tripping middle manager decided they want you to start juggling bowling pins while riding a unicycle while you were hired to develop software.

Won't someone please think of the poor employers? /s

swongel commented on Every DoorDash employee, from engineers to CEO, will make deliveries cnn.com/2021/12/28/busine... · Posted by u/brutus1213

toss1 · 4 years ago

Seems like proper dogfooding

The "it wasn't part of the job description" engineer would be on my short list for reevaluation. In a dynamic org, change is constant, and stick-in-the-mud complainers like this range from underproductive to actively toxic. If it's just an isolated bad day, fine, but if it's an underlying 'not-my'job' attitude, then they're likely better employed elsewhere.

This practice should be pretty standard, as well as flexible roles & responsibilities, mentoring/interning, etc. to spread & grow knowledge as much as possible.

swongel · 4 years ago

That's a nice way to say "Do what I tell you regardless of what we agreed your role would be or I fire you".

Talk about toxic, this kind of garbage is why workers need strong labor laws and unions protecting them.

swongel commented on What would you pay for autonomous driving? Volkswagen hopes $8.50 per hour arstechnica.com/cars/2021... · Posted by u/panda88888

jacquesm · 4 years ago

That's cheaper than parking in Amsterdam. They're on to something here but the side-effects will likely not be what you expect. Suddenly the roads are going to be parking space as well.

It also - funny - is higher than the minimum wage in many places.

swongel · 4 years ago

They'd probably make it illegal for cars to drive without passenger in cities like Amsterdam without a taxi license to prevent traffic jams of cars driving around to avoid parking costs.

swongel commented on How corporations buy and food made with prison labor thecounter.org/how-corpor... · Posted by u/adrian_mrd

chopin · 4 years ago

> China is a dirty old dinosaur of an economy, it has double the carbon emissions of the US while only generating 2/3 of the GDP!

Does this account for the goods exported from China to the US? These should be added to the emissions caused by the US. The west exported much of their environmental problems to poorer nations, including China.

swongel · 4 years ago

It doesn't, it also doesn't account for the fact that China has a larger population. The US only has about ~23% of China's population to sustain. GDP/CO2 is a silly metric to compare (No Patrick, selling financial products to increase GDP/CO2 isn't green).

In reality China is just "greener" (in CO2 emission) than the USA if you measure more reasonable metrics like CO2 emission per capita.

swongel commented on Using GDPR to obtain one’s data as JSON mazzo.li/posts/gdpr-succe... · Posted by u/rostayob

methyl · 4 years ago

> The data subject shall have the right to receive the personal data concerning him or her, which he or she has provided to a controller

IANAL, but this sounds to me like you are entitled to receive only the personal data of yours in a machine-readable format, not _everything_ you entered.

swongel · 4 years ago

From article 4. of the GDPR:

‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;

AFAIK a personal to-do list would be "relating to an identifiable natural person" as the database will have a relation from this data to the account, which will likely have a name, email address or other PII (directly or indirectly).

IANAL

swongel commented on EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint cnbc.com/2021/04/30/eu-sa... · Posted by u/headmelted

endisneigh · 4 years ago

I’m curious - In the EU are businesses required by law to accept whatever form of payment the customer would like to use? Are vendors required?

swongel · 4 years ago

No, you can't pay with any currency like Zimbabwean dollars and expect the EU to force businesses to accept it, no.

But this article isn't about legal tender or how debts can be repaid it's about anti-trust and coupling commodities (like bread, and phones) with exclusive services without a service contract at the moment of purchase.