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southerntofu commented on Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem   idealista.com/en/news/leg... · Posted by u/diggan
thegrim33 · a year ago
> The reality is that while squatters might hold political beliefs, few people would choose to squat if they had other housing options

Here in Seattle, time and time again, studies are done which show the majority of homeless, when offered shelter, turn it down and prefer to live on the streets. Which seems to completely contradict your claim that they would make use of housing options.

Maybe Seattle homeless are different than your homeless. I don't know why that'd be the case. The same people with the same political ideologies blame the cause of it on the same things, in both places, at least.

https://komonews.com/news/project-seattle/many-homeless-peop...

https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-city-council-wants-d...

https://www.seattlepi.com/homeless_in_seattle/article/A-lot-...

southerntofu · a year ago
At least here in France, the "housing" they offer is just a mattress in a huge room with no intimacy and dangerous people around. Most homeless people are skeptical at first, but after getting robbed/assaulted they certainly will refuse temporary housing for the rest of their life.

If the authorities really cared about the homeless, they would requisition empty dwellings and assign them individually so people have a proper home to rebuild their life.

Dead Comment

southerntofu commented on Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem   idealista.com/en/news/leg... · Posted by u/diggan
throwaway2037 · a year ago
Why don't people move to a place with higher wages? Spain a member of the EU.

And, why do people enter IT in Spain, if the wages are so terrible?

southerntofu · a year ago
Where would you move, and how? Wages are not better in surrounding countries, unless you work in specific companies it's not easy to get in. You also need the opportunity. Most people living paycheck-to-paycheck have little time and mental space to radically change their situation...
southerntofu commented on Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem   idealista.com/en/news/leg... · Posted by u/diggan
Manuel_D · a year ago
The okupas are the ones running the extortion racket. If anyone is acting like the Mafia, it's the people illegally occupying the house and demanding money to leave.

What happens in the US is that the land owner hires people to squat in the house. They don't lay a finger on the real squatters. They just take up all the rooms and generally make it annoying to live there until they leave. Then they get paid by the landowner and move out.

This has resulted in lots of funny videos where squatters get angry at other squatters for squatting. The hypocrisy is astounding.

southerntofu · a year ago
> If anyone is acting like the Mafia, it's the people illegally occupying the house and demanding money to leave.

People demand housing, not money. It's not a racket that people are homeless and need a place to live. It's funny how you go into conspirational thinking that quick. It's more concerning that you think it's better to pay the anti-squat mafia tons of cash, rather than give the same amount to the squatters to leave the place so they can find another home.

> This has resulted in lots of funny videos where squatters get angry at other squatters for squatting.

Just because you live in a squat doesn't mean anyone can come and live there. It's your residence, not a public space. There's enough empty dwellings to house everyone decently. That doesn't make it a moral obligation if you are struggling and squat a home to house every single homeless person that comes by. I mean, you don't have a greater moral obligation for that than someone who rents or owns their home.

It's not hypocrisy to get angry at assholes trying to ruin your life when you're already low on cash and living in precarious housing. It's cruel that you would find human misery "funny".

southerntofu commented on Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem   idealista.com/en/news/leg... · Posted by u/diggan
ImJamal · a year ago
It is not their residence. They broke in and just moved in.

Kicking out people who are trespassing is how you have a safe and lawful society. Allowing private citizens to do whatever they feel like to innocent people is mafia like behavior.

southerntofu · a year ago
It is their residence. That's the semantic difference between residence and ownership. You may reside somewhere without owning it, and vice-versa.

Now, breaking into people's residence is a different matter, and is already highly criminalized. Laws about squatting and tenants rights don't exist in the void without a reason: they are supposed to be a balance between ownership rights and housing rights. Allowing the real estate mafia to make its own law is not exactly a balance...

southerntofu commented on Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem   idealista.com/en/news/leg... · Posted by u/diggan
hiatus · a year ago
> So if someone takes your house while you are away it is not legally squatting, but rather homebreaking and they will be evicted without even a trial.

At least in the US there have been cases where the squatter forged a lease and showed that to police that came to evict them. With the scant evidence the police would deem it a civil matter and you have to go to court. I'm not sure what the process is in Spain though.

southerntofu · a year ago
Forging a lease for an empty dwelling is easy. But forging a lease for the owner's residence is much harder. You'd have to get rid of the owner's stuff, make sure the neighbors don't testify that this is the owner's residence, come up with fake papers to prove the owner lives elsewhere.

All in all, i'd be curious if you have an example because that sounds like opinion manipulation from the owners as that case is very unlikely. At least similar cases i've heard about in France have been 100% debunked. It's much more likely the owners live(d) elsewhere and had an empty dwelling squatted.

southerntofu commented on Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem   idealista.com/en/news/leg... · Posted by u/diggan
coopykins · a year ago
The housing construction in Spain dropped flat in 2018. From building 9000 units/month to 700 units. Yet the population increased in 1,000,000 people in the last 10 years. It is not sustainable.

https://tradingeconomics.com/spain/housing-startshttps://www.worldometers.info/world-population/spain-populat...

southerntofu · a year ago
What would be more interesting is to have statistics about empty dwellings. The banks have evicted countless people after the 2008 crisis, but are they renting those places now? If so, how cheap is it?

There is no shortage of housing. There is a shortage of rentable affordable housing, due to an epidemic of greedy landlord accaparating the market.

southerntofu commented on Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem   idealista.com/en/news/leg... · Posted by u/diggan
victorbjorklund · a year ago
I have seen some apartment being severely reduced because they are under occupation (makes sense since the buyer buys an apartment they cant even go into without a multi-year legal process). I wonder if it ever happens that people occupy an apartment only to get the owner to sell for cheap and then they (or their friend) buys the apartment for cheap?
southerntofu · a year ago
I've never heard of something like this. It's not exactly like squatters are millionaires trying to save on rent to buy more champagne... I'm not saying this has never existed, there's probably an outlier somewhere.

What does exist for sure and is publicly advertised is companies like the original article trying to make owners desperate about squatters so they will sell their property for cheap. For example here in France, "Squat Solutions" has been doing this for years, buying property for ~10% of market price because of squatters, after convincing the owners they had already lost everything.

southerntofu commented on Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem   idealista.com/en/news/leg... · Posted by u/diggan
alexpc201 · a year ago
It is not what happened a few meters from my home in a completely closed apartment. The "squatters" broke the first-floor window to enter, the Mossos took 15 minutes to arrive and did absolutely nothing. They have been there for six months, they already changed the front door, and the owner cannot get them out.
southerntofu · a year ago
In that case, was the dwelling abandoned? Of course the squatters are gonna say they didn't break in because that's the only way they'll keep their homes, but is it morally wrong to break into a speculator-owned dwelling that has been empty for 5 years? I've personally done it multiple times in my youth...
southerntofu commented on Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem   idealista.com/en/news/leg... · Posted by u/diggan
lm28469 · a year ago
It's the same in France so I wouldn't even be surprised.

You can't even cut electricity/heat as it is seen inhumane and in theory you have to renovate/fix the house every time something dangerous needs to be fixed because it's illegal to provide unsafe housing.

Sometimes it takes years for people to get their house back and they often are completely trashed

southerntofu · a year ago
All you said is wrong.

France, like Spain, has strong residence protection for anyone, including homeowners. So if someone takes your house while you are away it is not legally squatting, but rather homebreaking and they will be evicted without even a trial.

If a house you own gets squatted you may stop paying for electricity/gaz/water. But to be honest apart from big corps abandoned buildings, i've never seen a squat where the electricity/water was already on.

It is illegal to rent dangerous housing. It may not be illegal to give it away in good faith, and it's certainly not your responsibility as an owner if it gets squatted. To my knowledge, and despite hearing about this constantly on homeowners forums, there has never been a case of owners being legally responsible for injuries to squatters.

u/southerntofu

KarmaCake day3247April 30, 2019View Original