solias99 (u/solias99)

solias99 commented on Launch HN: Creo (YC W24) – Build internal tools with NextJS and AI · Posted by u/solias99

I think there's a trap that hits founders: "What do you have to do before you build your unique idea?"

Well you need to setup boilerplate, buy a CRM, buy an email marketing tool, etc. and like 30% of companies think "oh this kind of sucks" and make one of those steps their company.

Nothing against the project but certainly one of those.

In particular I think it overestimates then pain they solve and underestimates both modern frameworks eg. T3 stack, and in particular how difficult getting something through enterprise procurement.

I can't imagine it being easier to get this bought than to do that stuff yourself, particularly when it makes you look bad as a dev to need help with the basics.

solias99 · a year ago

Thanks for mentioning this, but it's definitely not what we're trying to achieve.

We may have underplayed a little, only because we have existing users already finding value with our current setup.

The goal is more like v0.dev, where with a prompt, you can generate your entire internal tool. We think we're not too far away from this (as shown in the YouTube demo).

solias99 commented on Launch HN: Creo (YC W24) – Build internal tools with NextJS and AI · Posted by u/solias99

ssijak · a year ago

I can do that manually with existing tools in half an hour. Endpoints change very rarely, once you setup your "view" of that endpoint you are mostly done for a long time, with some smaller changes over time.

Also if I wanted to go AI route, I can ask Cloude Opus or GPT4 : "Here is an endpoint that returns this type of data <paste data type here>, make me a React component that fetches this data and presents it in searchable table using shadcn"

It will get me 80-90% there, it would need just a little manual tweaking to conform to the current project code standards.

solias99 · a year ago

This is the exact thing I've personally tried several times and it doesn't work well. But it works with a prompt in our app right now.

Some reasons listed below:

1. Gpt hallucinates shadcn's big data table implementation more often than not. Also, you don't have props for everything by default (page size, filtering, sticky columns etc)

2. We have certain rules we ask our AI to stick to, such as always putting a table in a card and consistent padding. So there's lesser cognitive effort in you thinking about how to style your tools.

3. Current LLMs are shaky with next14 right now, especially on where to use server and client components.

solias99 commented on Launch HN: Creo (YC W24) – Build internal tools with NextJS and AI · Posted by u/solias99

motoxpro · a year ago

Makes sense! I would say flip your video and put the AI stuff upfront. At least then people can see what you have/where you're going.

more of a "Use AI to generate internal tools" (the language, auth, UI, etc. could be anything. even though react is a great start.)

In time you could generate the stuff in any language people want "use the language you love instead of constricting no-code or inflexible boilerplate starters"

The boilerplate is less than valuable because you're competing with already established open source communities that "will be around long after you go out of business or pivot" (quote because of sentiment but not because I think you're going out of business :) )

solias99 · a year ago

Great feedback, thanks!

We mostly shrunk away from pitching the AI because we thought people will find immediate value in the starter and be able to use it (like our existing users/customers), but in hindsight that was a mistake, especially considering the AI is already decently valuable.

solias99 commented on Launch HN: Creo (YC W24) – Build internal tools with NextJS and AI · Posted by u/solias99

aerhardt · a year ago

Why are RSC more LLM friendly that traditional React?

solias99 · a year ago

1. Very clean, easy to understand APIs.

2. Easy to make API calls.

3. Easy to reason about server/client component boundaries

Makes it easy for an LLM to write code without all the cruft/boilerplate.

solias99 commented on Launch HN: Creo (YC W24) – Build internal tools with NextJS and AI · Posted by u/solias99

motoxpro · a year ago

First half of the video I was like, I am watching a random next JS youtube video. Then when the AI stuff came in I was like ahhh they just have a massive positioning/messaging problem. Not that I would use it, but positioning yourself against boilerplate, auth, optioned starters, etc. is really really rough.

solias99 · a year ago

Thanks.

This is something we're actively working on fixing. That's where we're going with the project as a whole!

solias99 commented on Launch HN: Creo (YC W24) – Build internal tools with NextJS and AI · Posted by u/solias99

dvt · a year ago

> The value is in being able to prompt AI something like "Here's my data that comes from endpoint X. Give me a table that shows this data that is also searchable."

This is a billion dollar idea even if at like a 70%+ success rate. And as a data engineer, I assure you the success rate is not there. There are so many edge cases, so many caveats, so many headaches; an AI generated solution will only work in the perfect API scenario (which never happens in the real world).

solias99 · a year ago

Just like Retool (or any other platform), you're expected to bring your own endpoint (but you're also free to write it in our app if you want).

The value will be in closing that feedback loop:

1. Here's the shape of the data coming in from endpoint /api/xyz. Currently, generating an endpoint with AI with this much nuance is very low in terms of success rate (and I think is what you're talking about).

2. However, once you know the endpoint and what the data looks like, our tool becomes valuable because you can just specify in natural language, which component you want to use, and how it has to be laid out on the page. Several people will prefer natural language over dragging and dropping UI elements on a screen. And the success rate is far higher for something like this.

solias99 commented on Launch HN: Creo (YC W24) – Build internal tools with NextJS and AI · Posted by u/solias99

dvt · a year ago

To me, this is a cute toy, but I highly doubt the AI can generate anything actually useful. Plus, I already have a code editor open, so context-switching to the browser to do "coding" feels a bit non-ergonomic.

I'd also like to see what the failure state looks like ("no, AI, not like that") because that's the main pain point when using tools like Copilot. The amount of time spent tweaking the AI prompt (or multi-shot re-prompting) ends up being comparable to just writing the thing yourself.

Like @IceDane and @ssijak, I'm also a bit shocked at what YC is funding these days.

solias99 · a year ago

I'll chime in with my personal experience: I spend about 50-60% of my time in GPT-4 just pasting code, prompting for what I want and then pasting it back into my code editor.

If this is my workflow most of the time, then surely this can be more streamlined. The way to streamline it would be:

1. Can I tell GPT-4 about my components (and always be up to date)

2. Can I ask GPT-4 to write to the file directly

3. If the output has an error, can I ask GPT to look at the compile time error and auto fix it?

The 3 things I mentioned above is something I do every single day. We're just looking to make it easier.

solias99 commented on Launch HN: Creo (YC W24) – Build internal tools with NextJS and AI · Posted by u/solias99

samuelstros · a year ago

What's the value to users if you are NextJS based?

- internal tools rarely (never?) need SEO

- the complexity of NextJS rings alarm bells as infra product. A look at your docs confirms my suspicion https://docs.trycreo.com/core-concepts/server-and-client-com...

solias99 · a year ago

Mainly their implementation of React Server Components, which is a far simpler set of APIs to work with compared to traditional React. (Also very LLM friendly)

solias99 commented on Launch HN: Creo (YC W24) – Build internal tools with NextJS and AI · Posted by u/solias99

rawoke083600 · a year ago

Agreed ! It looks really good. But not sure where or when I do the AI prompting ?

solias99 · a year ago

Once you install our starter via this:

npx creoctl@latest init

cd into the project, download the dependencies, and npm run dev.

On port 8891, you can open any of the tools (or create a new one) and a chat box appears on the right. There you can ask for what you want!

solias99 commented on Launch HN: Creo (YC W24) – Build internal tools with NextJS and AI · Posted by u/solias99

ssijak · a year ago

I'm genuinely curious how this YC is funded?

This is targeting developers who are already using tried and tested solutions for this kind of problems, which are all open sourced or, if not, well established.

There are dozens of choices for auth, component libraries and any other lego piece you need. And it is very easy to piece them together and have full control.

I would almost never trade small perceived gain in speed of pushing first version of some internal tool, for much much lower flexibility, cost and lockin over life of the project.

solias99 · a year ago

I implore you to try the product.

The value is in being able to prompt AI something like "Here's my data that comes from endpoint X. Give me a table that shows this data that is also searchable."

I personally find that valuable (along with not having to think about which auth vendor and component library to use).