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skissane commented on AI will make formal verification go mainstream   martin.kleppmann.com/2025... · Posted by u/evankhoury
gizmo686 · 21 hours ago
A limited form of formal verification is already mainstream. It is called type systems. The industry in general has been slowly moving to encode more invariants into the type system, because every invariant that is in the type system is something you can stop thinking about until the type checker yells at you.

A lot of libraries document invariants that are either not checked at all, only at runtime, or somewhere in between. For instance, the requirement that a collection not be modified during interaction. Or that two region of memory do not overlap, or that a variable is not modified without owning a lock. These are all things that, in principle, can be formally verified.

No one claims that good type systems prevent buggy software. But, they do seem to improve programmer productivity.

For LLMs, there is an added benefit. If you can formally specify what you want, you can make that specification your entire program. Then have an LLM driven compiler produce a provably correct implementation. This is a novel programming paradigm that has never before been possible; although every "declarative" language is an attempt to approximate it.

skissane · 17 hours ago
> For LLMs, there is an added benefit. If you can formally specify what you want, you can make that specification your entire program. Then have an LLM driven compiler produce a provably correct implementation. This is a novel programming paradigm that has never before been possible; although every "declarative" language is an attempt to approximate it.

The problem is there is always some chance a coding agent will get stuck and be unable to produce a conforming implementation in a reasonable amount of time. And then you are back in a similar place to what you were with those pre-LLM solutions - needing a human expert to work out how to make further progress.

skissane commented on I ported JustHTML from Python to JavaScript with Codex CLI and GPT-5.2 in hours   simonwillison.net/2025/De... · Posted by u/pbowyer
gaigalas · 18 hours ago
> Ask it to write tests that maximise code coverage

That is significantly harder to do than writing an implementation from tests, especially for codebases that previously didn't have any testing infrastructure.

skissane · 17 hours ago
Give a coding agent a codebase with no tests, and tell it to write some, it will - if you don’t tell it which framework to use, it will just pick one. No denying you’ll get much better results if an experienced developer provides it with some prompting on how to test than if you just let it decide for itself.
skissane commented on I ported JustHTML from Python to JavaScript with Codex CLI and GPT-5.2 in hours   simonwillison.net/2025/De... · Posted by u/pbowyer
gwking · a day ago
I’ve idly wondered about this sort of thing quite a bit. The next step would seem to be taking a project’s implementation dependent tests, converting them to an independent format and verifying them against the original project, then conducting the port.
skissane · 21 hours ago
Give coding agent some software. Ask it to write tests that maximise code coverage (source coverage if you have source code; if not, binary coverage). Consider using concolic fuzzing. Then give another agent the generated test suite, and ask it to write an implementation that passes. Automated software cloning. I wonder what results you might get?
skissane commented on Problems with D-Bus on the Linux desktop   blog.vaxry.net/articles/2... · Posted by u/LorenDB
senko · 2 days ago
> Do you hate a{sv}? If you propose JSON as alternative,

Obviously, the components should talk using MCP.

skissane · 2 days ago
You may be joking but I think seriously that may be a decent idea. The universal RPC/automation mechanism which everybody implements-whatever its warts may be-is superior to a better-designed one which few actually end up supporting. You don’t need an LLM to call MCP tools, there’s nothing stopping you from calling MCP tools from any programming language.
skissane commented on Is P=NP?   adlrocha.substack.com/p/a... · Posted by u/adlrocha
nrhrjrjrjtntbt · 4 days ago
P=NP feels like too much of a free lunch. Yeah thats unscientific but a hunch.
skissane · 3 days ago
It needn’t be a “free lunch” at all. An O(n^1000) algorithm for an NP-complete problem would constructively prove that P=NP yet be completely useless for solving any NP problems in practice
skissane commented on Windows 3.1 in the Browser   pcjs.org/software/pcx86/s... · Posted by u/memalign
lloydatkinson · 4 days ago
Also funny to note there is a clipboard viewer, which as far as I know from extensively using Windows, did not feature again in Windows till Windows 10's WIN + V.
skissane · 3 days ago
It was still there up to Windows XP, although by XP it had become a legacy component lacking support for newer clipboard formats. Vista removed it. The NT/2000/XP version supported sharing clipboard data across your local network using NetDDE

Office also used to come with its own clipboard viewer app, with history support. It is still there in recent versions, as an option within the Word/Excel/etc UIs, but if you go back far enough (97? 2000?) it was a separate EXE you could use without having any of the main Office apps open.

skissane commented on Is P=NP?   adlrocha.substack.com/p/a... · Posted by u/adlrocha
ahmedfromtunis · 4 days ago
This is a fairly new question; from the early 20th century, iirc.

There were many questions with no answers for literal centuries and thousands trying, and failing, to crack them. A solution was ultimately found despite that.

A new "math" might be needed, but an answer (affirming or not) will be found.

skissane · 4 days ago
> A new "math" might be needed, but an answer (affirming or not) will be found.

What if there exists a proof that P!=NP, but the shortest possible proof of that proposition is a googolplex symbols that long? Then P!=NP would be true, and provable and knowable in theory, yet eternally unprovable and unknowable in practice

skissane commented on Is P=NP?   adlrocha.substack.com/p/a... · Posted by u/adlrocha
fjfaase · 4 days ago
Maybe I should have written: "Many have tried to find algorithms in P to solve NP problems and failed to find them." Even now, many people are working on algorithms to find solutions for NP problems. I understand that it has been proven that it is not possible to proof P=NP? using 'algorithms'. That might mean that even when a proof is found that P=NP that there still will be no P algorithm to solve NP problems.
skissane · 4 days ago
Someone might eventually provide a non-constructive proof that P=NP - a proof that such an algorithm must exist but which fails to actually produce one.

Or even a galactic algorithm-an algorithm for solving an NP-complete problem that is technically in P, but completely useless for anything in practice, e.g. O(n^10000000)

skissane commented on Is P=NP?   adlrocha.substack.com/p/a... · Posted by u/adlrocha
fjfaase · 4 days ago
The fact that thousands of people have failed to prove that P=NP indication that it is probably not true. It has even been proven that it cannot be proven by some methods.
skissane · 4 days ago
Couldn’t you equally say “The fact that thousands of people have failed to prove that P!=NP indication that it is probably not true”?

My completely unscientific hunch is someone will eventually prove that P=?=NP is independent of ZF(C). Maybe the universe just really wants to mess with complexity theorists

skissane commented on Workday project at Washington University hits $266M   theregister.com/2025/12/1... · Posted by u/sebastian_z
rwmj · 4 days ago
ServiceNow is so terrible I genuinely wonder how it is ever deployed anywhere. Seriously, do the purchasers never look at it? Is there no product demo at all during the purchase process? Do the sales people actively hide it or something?
skissane · 4 days ago
> ServiceNow is so terrible I genuinely wonder how it is ever deployed anywhere. Seriously, do the purchasers never look at it?

When I first saw ServiceNow, I was impressed - because my point of comparison (I worked for a university at the time) was BMC Remedy, which was terrible. And some years later I did some consulting for a major bank which was using some 3270-based IBM solution (Tivoli something… I believe it has finally been discontinued) and ServiceNow is light years ahead of that too.

u/skissane

KarmaCake day16425February 11, 2015View Original