rejhgadellaa (u/rejhgadellaa)

rejhgadellaa commented on Don't Download Apps blog.calebjay.com/posts/d... · Posted by u/speckx

You realize that if you are concerned about apps tracking you without you explicitly giving it your location, a website could do the same since there are browser APIs that can retrieve the same information only gated by the same OS controls?

When you go to a website, they have always known the originating IP address.

rejhgadellaa · 21 days ago

Not entirely true. Browsers are paranoid by default (because visiting a website is as easy as clicking a link). Operating systems aren't (because the user explicitly installed an app, it's been "vetted" by app store experts, and because... well, the OS vendor wants you to build native apps and not a website, so they have to make it worth the extra trouble of building a separate app for each platform instead of one website that works everywhere).

Also, browsers tend to bring their own sandbox (on top of what the OS already does). For example, Chromium was able to mitigate Meltdown/Spectre before OS vendors shipped an update (except on iOS where browsers can't bring their own engines, so iPhone users had to wait for Apple to ship an OS update...)

rejhgadellaa commented on App Should Have Been a Website (and Probably Your Game Too) rogueengine.io/blog/your-... · Posted by u/thunderbong

yonatan8070 · a year ago

The modern web sucks, with all the tracking, etc.

But it's still a lot better than apps, which give the developer more control without (in most cases) any tangible UX benefit. Just as an example, Reddit doesn't need to have an app, all they do is display text and images, along with some interaction, and they especially don't need to lock some content behind the app (I recently got a popup when trying to view a post saying that "unreviewed content" is only available in the app, despite the post clearly loading for a split second before the popup).

rejhgadellaa · a year ago

Yeah so native apps have some unique abilities to track you that websites do not.

On top of that, platforms like Reddit and Facebook tend to prefer native apps because it's easier to keep you within the app. Even if you click a link to an external website, for example, Facebook will open that link in an in-app browser (unless you find the opt-out). A few years ago, a researcher found out that these apps often inject their own javascript into that in-app browser. In theory, that means FB can track you even on external sites, even if you do not accept cookies for that website. You just brought your own tracker. Facebook then decided they should ship their own entire browser engine, giving them even more control.

https://webventures.rejh.nl/blog/2022/in-app-browsers-are-tr...

rejhgadellaa commented on App Should Have Been a Website (and Probably Your Game Too) rogueengine.io/blog/your-... · Posted by u/thunderbong

watermelon0 · a year ago

Mobile operating systems have really good security models, and native apps are even more isolated compared to the websites.

I really wish that we would have similar isolation options on desktop/laptop OSes.

rejhgadellaa · a year ago

I'm afraid it's the other way around. Browsers are (generally) better at sandboxing than OSs. Browsers are paranoid by default. They have to be, because visiting a website is just a click away (compared to multiple clicks/taps to install a native app).

For example, Chromium was able to mitigate Meltdown/Spectre within days, even if the OS was still vulnerable. (Chrome already had site isolation ready to ship, a feature that completely isolates websites into their own process). Even better, Chromium browsers tend to update themselves (or via Google Play) automatically.

Meanwhile, OS vendors were scrambling to ship an OS update.

(Also, worth mentioning that iOS users were vulnerable until Apple shipped an OS update, because every browser on iOS has to use Apple's WebKit)

rejhgadellaa commented on App Should Have Been a Website (and Probably Your Game Too) rogueengine.io/blog/your-... · Posted by u/thunderbong

soerxpso · a year ago

> Yet businesses still push native apps as if it’s 2010, and we’re left downloading apps for things that should just work on the web.

The app icon acts as free marketing. If it were just a website, you wouldn't have a little picture of their logo on your phone to be reminded that they exist every now and then. They know that it could just be a website (usually it IS just a website, packed inside an "app"), but they don't want that for a reason.

rejhgadellaa · a year ago

> If it were just a website, you wouldn't have a little picture of their logo on your phone

You can install web apps on the home screen since iOS 1.0. The fact that you (and many, many others) don't seem to know this is a thing, says a lot about how effective Apple is at hiding that feature... :(

(Chromium browsers support an API where a website can show an install button if certain conditions are met, making it a one-click experience. But alas, for some reason Apple doesn't allow browser engines except the one they control :thinking: )

rejhgadellaa commented on App Should Have Been a Website (and Probably Your Game Too) rogueengine.io/blog/your-... · Posted by u/thunderbong

kyriakos · a year ago

I currently have 4 parking apps, and 2 ev charging apps on my phone. None of those have a Web version when you can clearly see that most of their ui is webview based. They could have been bookmarks indeed.

rejhgadellaa · a year ago

100% agree. Except it would be nice to have a notification, reminding you that the meter is running. And on iOS, you need to install a web app before it can send notifications, defeating the point of not having to install anything.

https://webventures.rejh.nl/blog/2023/ios-web-push-requires-...

rejhgadellaa commented on App Should Have Been a Website (and Probably Your Game Too) rogueengine.io/blog/your-... · Posted by u/thunderbong

MattHeard · a year ago

One thing I haven't seen addressed in the post or comments (sorry if it's there and I just missed it) is for apps and websites that sell non-digital goods to customers.

For returning customers, a customer with an app installed is simply going to have a lot less friction to open the installed app and place an order than a customer who has to open their browser, log in again, and then place the order.

That alone is worth the investment for many companies in making an app, even if a minority of customers actually choose to install the app and keep it installed.

rejhgadellaa · a year ago

If the website is a PWA, it can be installed to the home screen and look and behave just like a native app. You just tap the icon on the home screen. It will remember your login.

And the upside is that you only have to develop one website (instead of a website and 2 separate native apps for iOS and Android).

rejhgadellaa commented on App Should Have Been a Website (and Probably Your Game Too) rogueengine.io/blog/your-... · Posted by u/thunderbong

mamcx · a year ago

> Developers pay hefty app store fees

So, hosting doesn't cost?

Too many app-but-websites should be local, but because are web requires hosting and likely a database (that must be 'web-scale' so it survives bots).

My web app cost far more than my older native one. And is far harder to maintain...

rejhgadellaa · a year ago

Then why did you switch (honest question, not intended to be snarky)?

rejhgadellaa commented on App Should Have Been a Website (and Probably Your Game Too) rogueengine.io/blog/your-... · Posted by u/thunderbong

aman-pro · a year ago

Contacts API; Not all sensors are supported

rejhgadellaa · a year ago

Contacts Picker API: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Contact_Pic...

Hardware APIs: There is of course a good reason why websites don't get unlimited access to those APIs (and why they can't access them in the background). But Bluetooth and USB are both available on Chromium browsers on every platform except iOS (because Chrome on iOS is Safari).

Example: When Google closed down Stadia, they offered a way to unlock the Stadia controller so you could connect it via BT to any computer and use it as a regular controller. You just went to their website, hooked up the controller via USB, and the site would update the firmware on the USB device.

But sure, there are many use-cases for native apps. Also, there are many native apps that should just be a website (you shouldn't even need to install it if you only need to use it once or twice).

rejhgadellaa commented on App Should Have Been a Website (and Probably Your Game Too) rogueengine.io/blog/your-... · Posted by u/thunderbong

brookst · a year ago

For offline use?

rejhgadellaa · a year ago

A website can work offline, too. Service workers are a feature that any website (installed or not) can use to (pre)cache assets, etc. On iOS, that data will get evicted if the user doesn't visit the site at least every 7 days, though. Other platforms keep the data for a lot longer, but will evict at some point, too.

rejhgadellaa commented on App Should Have Been a Website (and Probably Your Game Too) rogueengine.io/blog/your-... · Posted by u/thunderbong

brookst · a year ago

As a frequent user of both web and phone airline apps, the phone apps are just nicer. UI idioms that are appropriate for the platform, etc.

rejhgadellaa · a year ago

Part of the problem is that the websites need to "share" budget with the teams that build 2 separate native apps (or maybe they use something like React Native, but that still costs money that could've been used for a better mobile website).

Also, if a company has a mobile app, a bad mobile website is less of a problem. Take Takeaway.com. Their mobile site is terrible. But they have a pretty good mobile app, so why would they need to pour money into making the site any better?

But yes, (mobile) web also just needs to do better.