Readit NewsDo you actually have any knowledge of the product, or are you just quoting a support page? I wouldn't trust a support page's definition of "opt-in"
> I wouldn't trust a support page's definition of "opt-in"
The support page doesn't have any definition of "opt-in". It simply says that users need to click under "Turn your PC's idle time to cash" and then accept a "License and Services Agreement" before they can access the "Norton Crypto dashboard" and enable "mining during idle time". I would consider that opt-in given that the user has to perform multiple steps before they can even enable the miner, and given that there isn't any suggestion to enable this by default during the installation process. If you don't consider that "opt-in", then please explain.
There seems to be a mob here that has been misled to think that the cryptocurrency miner is enabled by default and runs on every Norton user's computer in the background, whereas in reality it IS installed by default (as in the binary takes up storage space on the user's hard drive), but can only be enabled with multiple steps including agreeing to a separate services agreement that is dedicated to the Norton Crypto product.
(I still think it's dumb to bundle a crypto miner with an anti-virus product. But all this talk about it running without the user's consent is nonsense.)
The screenshots from [1] shows it saying "Turn your PC's idle time into cash. Show me how". Would that make sense if you had no choice in the matter? And on the second screenshot it has "Pause mining" button.
[1] from: https://community.norton.com/en/blogs/product-service-announ...
See also https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v... seems clearly opt-in.
No removal option for this "feature". It's funny how anti-virus stuff looks like virus stuff.
You can however "pause" the mining forever while keeping everything installed which is what support will suggest if you ask.
> You can however "pause" the mining forever while keeping everything installed which is what support will suggest if you ask.
Just to clarify because this sentence sounds a bit misleading -- according to https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v... the cryptocurrency miner is off by default, so if you haven't turned it on, then there's no need to pause it if you don't want it running.
If it's installed without warning, I'm sure you'll also get a lovely surprise on your electricity bill when it turns out your laptop has been mining crypto when you thought it was sleeping.
They're basically turning their installed user base into a botnet and charging customers money for the pleasure. I hope they get taken to court over it.
It is installed but not activated without warning AFAIK. According to https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v... the user must first agree to a Norton Crypto License and Services Agreement and then explicitly activate the miner before anything will happen.
> it's not like they maliciously inserted this thing to mine crypto for Norton itself. Whatever your computer mines is yours
It says you're joined to a mining pool. Is this a Norton 360-only mining pool? If so, I'm guessing they have their own hardware participating in the pool as well. And if that's the case, you're helping them mine for blocks just as much as you're helping yourself. But they don't say that anywhere so who knows.
edit: and it also appears that they're taking 15% of whatever you mine.
So they've apparently:
* Set up a Norton-only pool
* Joined all their customers computers to it
* Collect 360 subscription fees to participate
* Collect 15% of everything their customers mine
* Participate in the pool themselves, further benefiting from their customers mining activity
And what happens to the unclaimed/unused wallets that they're holding for their oblivious customers in "the cloud"? If I cared enough about this to read the fine print I bet I'll find that they're reserving the right to empty those after a certain period of inactivity.
> oblivious customers
Users must explicitly agree to a Norton Crypto License and Services Agreement and activate mining before the software starts mining Ethereum. It is unlikely there would be any oblivious customers.
See https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v...
>Also, it's not like they maliciously inserted this thing to mine crypto for Norton itself.
No, but it is still malicious in the sense that it:
(1) does not inform the user or ask for consent
(2) seemingly does not offer an option to disable it
While I want to apply Occam's razor here, you'd have to assume all of the people that worked on this were negligent or unqualified... when sadly the more likely scenario is that these decisions were most likely intentional.
> (1) does not inform the user or ask for consent
> (2) seemingly does not offer an option to disable it
Where do you see this? As far as I can tell, it is off by default, and the user must explicitly enable it (consent) to use the miner.
See e.g. https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v... which mentions a License and Services Agreement that must be accepted before the miner can be used at all, and clearly says the mining status can be toggled between Active and Paused.
Deleted Comment
I very much believe that intent matters, and should matter, but the problem with intent in a legal setting is that often it is incredibly difficult to prove intent, and the defendant just has to say "I never intended it to mean that; I was thinking $INNOCENT_THING when I said it" to inject some doubt into the proceedings, often enough doubt to avoid a guilty verdict.
I agree that there needs to be a balance. I'd argue that US defamation law is close to the "right" balance, by making a stronger case needed to prosecute defamation against public figures (like public officials or celebrities), and by focusing not exactly on intention but on whether the defendant within reason could have believed the statement was true.
For contrast, in Canada, capital gains tax rate is 50%, regardless of the amount.
That makes it sound like you pay half of capital gains in taxes, but I think what you mean is that 50% of capital gains is taxable, and that this portion is taxed at the same rate as other personal income. Personally I think 100% of capital gains should be taxable at the marginal income tax rate.