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pcaharrier commented on Michigan Supreme Court: Unrestricted phone searches violate Fourth Amendment   reclaimthenet.org/michiga... · Posted by u/mikece
Hilift · a day ago
Another magistrate in the same building may have granted it. That part of the legal process as they say, sometimes contains preliminary information and may be prone to errors.
pcaharrier · 12 hours ago
In other jurisdictions that might have worked, but not in this one where this magistrate was the only one on duty at the time.
pcaharrier commented on Michigan Supreme Court: Unrestricted phone searches violate Fourth Amendment   reclaimthenet.org/michiga... · Posted by u/mikece
sidewndr46 · a day ago
Michigan Supreme court does not have authority over Federal Agents. Michigan is a border state, so anyone is subject to stop and search at any time
pcaharrier · a day ago
>Michigan is a border state, so anyone is subject to stop and search at any time

You know, if you're a Homeland Security agent you have to tell us, right?

pcaharrier commented on Michigan Supreme Court: Unrestricted phone searches violate Fourth Amendment   reclaimthenet.org/michiga... · Posted by u/mikece
SamoyedFurFluff · a day ago
I mean, at minimum I doubt anything on his phone is relevant from a year, two years ago.
pcaharrier · a day ago
This a good point too. Information can become "stale" to the point that it's no longer enough to support a search warrant or a conviction. One example of such a holding here (though the defendant lost the motion to suppress on other grounds): https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/3002057/united-states-...
pcaharrier commented on Michigan Supreme Court: Unrestricted phone searches violate Fourth Amendment   reclaimthenet.org/michiga... · Posted by u/mikece
nemomarx · a day ago
Have you heard about that being enforced very often?
pcaharrier · a day ago
I mean, there are a few noted here if you want a starting place for your research: https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-4/p...
pcaharrier commented on Michigan Supreme Court: Unrestricted phone searches violate Fourth Amendment   reclaimthenet.org/michiga... · Posted by u/mikece
lovich · a day ago
Is that cutting corners? It sounds more like trying to break the law so they could find _anything_ to throw at the guy.

With how many laws we have on the books, everyone on the planet can be found guilty of some violation if their life is examined with a fine toothed comb

pcaharrier · a day ago
>Is that cutting corners? It sounds more like trying to break the law so they could find _anything_ to throw at the guy.

In my experience, yes, in many cases it was more laziness than something nefarious. Police often have a theory of the case in their head that just doesn't make it onto the affidavit. Things that seem obvious to them after investigating the case for some length of time are not as obvious to someone seeing it for the first time on a search warrant affidavit. Fishing expeditions happen, no doubt, but let's also remember Hubbard's corollary to Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system." They get in a hurry, don't read the affidavit with fresh eyes, and forge ahead anyway because they're under pressure to close cases quickly. Not that that's a good thing, but it's distinct from people who are intent on just breaking the law and violating people's rights.

pcaharrier commented on Michigan Supreme Court: Unrestricted phone searches violate Fourth Amendment   reclaimthenet.org/michiga... · Posted by u/mikece
potato3732842 · a day ago
You believe way too much in the system. They DGAF about the DV. Maybe the charge will stick, maybe it won't. Sure they like it more than a traffic ticket but it's not much more valuable to them than a DUI. People get smacked upside the head every day and it's no big deal in their world. They want to use the DV as the pretext for a fishing expedition, In their minds maybe they can nail the guy on drug dealing or whatever other more interesting and valuable crime they can find
pcaharrier · a day ago
>You believe way too much in the system.

Who me? I assure you I don't.

In the particular case I described above there were some factors about who the person was that make me pretty confident the police were wanting to sniff around for something juicier (though because of his situation, even the accusation of domestic violence was going to be enough to ruin certain things for him, even if nothing ever came of it). That's SOP for many things where, for example, certain departments train officers to use traffic stops as pretexts to "elevate" the encounter to a felony arrest. They don't care that the guy failed to come to a complete stop at that stop sign, but they like their chances of getting consent to search his vehicle and finding (or, in the egregious cases, planting) something else.

Edit: I see that you weren't replying directly to me. Sorry about that.

pcaharrier commented on Michigan Supreme Court: Unrestricted phone searches violate Fourth Amendment   reclaimthenet.org/michiga... · Posted by u/mikece
nemomarx · a day ago
That's why they get a warrant for the full contents of the phone though?
pcaharrier · a day ago
A warrant for the full contents of the phone violates the particularity requirement.
pcaharrier commented on Michigan Supreme Court: Unrestricted phone searches violate Fourth Amendment   reclaimthenet.org/michiga... · Posted by u/mikece
0cf8612b2e1e · a day ago
If they have a warrant to the phone, what is poisoned fruit? It only becomes tainted evidence if they eg) stole the phone and rifled through it.
pcaharrier · a day ago
If they have a warrant that adheres to the particularity requirement of the Fourth Amendment, then anything they might find that it outside the scope of the warrant would be illegally seized. For instance, if the search warrant were to say "search the contacts on the phone" and they go looking for pictures.
pcaharrier commented on Michigan Supreme Court: Unrestricted phone searches violate Fourth Amendment   reclaimthenet.org/michiga... · Posted by u/mikece
mrkstu · a day ago
They can stop Michigan judges from granting warrants that fall within this scope, which should stop 90%+ of the problem within their purview.

Now the downside is that since they rely on the Federal Constitution in the ruling rather than the Michigan one, if the Supreme Court ever rules differently, this precedent will be overturned, even in Michigan.

pcaharrier · a day ago
They hinted at the issue in footnote 11:

"Our state Constitution, Const 1963, art 1, § 11, also guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. In fact, as amended by voter initiative in the 2020 general election, Const 1963, art 1, § 11 specifically provides that “[n]o warrant to . . . access electronic data or electronic communications shall issue without describing them . . . .” However, defendant’s claims below rested solely on Fourth Amendment principles. Therefore, we have no occasion to consider whether the language of Const 1963, art 1, § 11 provides broader protection than the Fourth Amendment in this context. Compare People v Lucynski, 509 Mich 618, 634 n 6; 983 NW2d 827 (2022) (noting that Const 1963, art 1, § 11 is interpreted coextensively with the Fourth Amendment unless there is a compelling reason for a different interpretation), with People v Bullock, 440 Mich 15, 30-31; 485 NW2d 866 (1992) (concluding that a textual difference between the Eighth Amendment and Const 1963, art 1, § 16 supported a broader interpretation of our state constitutional provision)."

So really the downside is that the defendant's lawyer didn't raise the state constitutional issue (which looks even clearer).

pcaharrier commented on Michigan Supreme Court: Unrestricted phone searches violate Fourth Amendment   reclaimthenet.org/michiga... · Posted by u/mikece
sidewndr46 · a day ago
As others have mentioned the courts in Michigan don't have any real authority to stop this. Also in the rare case that someone in law enforcement gets caught doing this sort of thing, the 'punishment' is that they have to promise not to do it again
pcaharrier · a day ago
>As others have mentioned the courts in Michigan don't have any real authority to stop this.

Who has said this? People are saying that a ruling of the Michigan Supreme Court won't stop Michigan police officers from getting search warrants without limitations? How did these people come to that conclusion?

u/pcaharrier

KarmaCake day352April 14, 2022View Original