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p9fus commented on Ask HN: 30y After 'On Lisp', PAIP etc., Is Lisp Still "Beating the Averages"?    · Posted by u/dualogy
hello_computer · 2 years ago
The man is dead, yet his words live:

http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit

"The others knew Lisp (they wrote their whole site in it) and they knew Python (they rewrote their whole site in it) and yet they decided liked Python better for this project. The Python version had less code that ran faster and was far easier to read and maintain."

p9fus · 2 years ago
Spez seems to contradict some of the claims made in that article (https://web.archive.org/web/20160803061607/http://www.reddit...).

for example he dosent make any claim about the python implementation being "far easier to read and maintain" (even by proxy by claiming that CL was hard to read/maintain), and honestly starts out by absolutely singing CL's praises

his reasoning seems to boil more down to the ecosystem surrounding Common Lisps libraries being poorer than pythons:

> If Lisp is so great, why did we stop using it? One of the biggest issues was the lack of widely used and tested libraries. Sure, there is a CL library for basically any task, but there is rarely more than one, and often the libraries are not widely used or well documented. Since we're building a site largely by standing on the shoulders of others, this made things a little tougher. There just aren't as many shoulders on which to stand.

[etc...]

> So why Python?

We were already familiar with Python. It's fast, development in Python is fast, and the code is clear. In most cases, the Lisp code translated very easily into Python. Lots of people have written web applications in Python, and there's plenty of code from which to learn. It's been fun so far, so we'll see where it takes us.

p9fus commented on Ask HN: 30y After 'On Lisp', PAIP etc., Is Lisp Still "Beating the Averages"?    · Posted by u/dualogy
DanielHB · 2 years ago
Half of the reason Lisp never caught on is that other languages have become better and added many of the Lisp features. First-class functions especially are is the killer feature you can't live without anymore once you tasted it.

The other thing that pg keeps hammering on about is Lisp Macros which I am not well versed enough to properly say how good of a feature they are. The alternatives most other languages have are much less powerful, but at the same time it seems that macros are very... abstract-y?

Modern software design thinking says that abstractions should be avoided when possible because they make the code harder to grasp for people not familiar with the abstraction on top of making the code too rigid and hard to modify once new requirements come in.

The alternatives to Lisp Macros like codegen, method annotations, Rust Macros. Are all much less powerful and usually harder to create, but maybe that is a good thing.

p9fus · 2 years ago
> The alternatives to Lisp Macros like codegen, method annotations, Rust Macros. Are all much less powerful and usually harder to create, but maybe that is a good thing.

I kinda agree that macros can lead to a lot of (bad) abstractions if you overuse them, but when you need a macro a lot of times the alternatives a language provides can somehow feel more magical if you try to get them to do macro-y things (decorators/attributes... languages always seem to mix those two terms) or just cumbersome and in my opinion kinda an ugly hack to paper over the fact that your language is lacking in some way (codegen). I'd much rather read a simple (lisp) macro then understand how your ugly codegen system works.

I dont have enough knowledge to comment on rust macros though.

p9fus commented on I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL   awesomekling.substack.com... · Posted by u/zmodem
p9fus · 2 years ago
I'm seriously impressed by the amount of progress this project has made (and its apparently helped with finding issues in the various specs that constitute a modern browser) so I wish him all the best in this new direction
p9fus commented on Helix-gpui: A simple GUI for the Helix editor   github.com/polachok/helix... · Posted by u/todsacerdoti
Lyngbakr · 2 years ago
Ah, I see. Would this come at a performance cost? (My only experience with GUI editors is VSCode, which feels sluggish compared to Helix.)
p9fus · 2 years ago
if anything GUI's should be significantly faster (well, I say significantly, but a well optimized GUI app and a well optimized Terminal + TUI app would probably have near imperceptible latency today anyways)
p9fus commented on Forebruary   ilyabirman.net/forebruary... · Posted by u/colinprince
p9fus · 2 years ago
The little timeline comparing it to the Shostakovich's 10th Symphony, Yury Gagarin being the first man in space, and the presentation of the IPhone was a fun touch lol
p9fus commented on Meringue Philosophy   meringue.readthedocs.io/e... · Posted by u/Vadim_samokhin
uoaei · 2 years ago
I appreciate linked data / the semantic web and its domain model-forward approach, labeled "ontologies". Organizing relationships between objects and actors contextualizes them and forces you to pursue parsimony. It's nice to see this philosophy appreciated elsewhere.

My projects usually start with a "goblin mode repo" to explore the domain, its possible representation in code, and settling on a suitable domain model for the problem in question. It's explicitly a place for prototyping, experimentation, and breaking changes galore. Naturally this technique doesn't extend much further than a small, tight-knit team, but once you find something that works you can formalize it in a new repo and share access with a wider group. If you did it right, those others will have no trouble comprehending the domain from the organization of code structures you've provided and extending that code in ergonomic ways to add features.

p9fus · 2 years ago
> My projects usually start with a "goblin mode repo"

Haha, I like the name :)

Dead Comment

p9fus commented on It’s an age of marvels   blog.plover.com/tech/its-... · Posted by u/pavel_lishin
iamthirsty · 2 years ago
> They look like berries

Americans shop with our eyes, not our mouths.

p9fus · 2 years ago
To be charitable to people who shop with their eyes, the people who shop with their mouths usually get tossed out of the store :P
p9fus commented on Only9Fans   only9fans.com... · Posted by u/metadat
pcl · 2 years ago
Wow, that reeks of arrogance.
p9fus · 2 years ago
it reeks of Rob Pike ;)
p9fus commented on Why SQLite Uses Bytecode   sqlite.org/draft/whybytec... · Posted by u/todsacerdoti
jonp888 · 2 years ago
Side note, but I'm amazed that anyone that is not a journalist or a politician still actively uses X/twitter. Everyone I used to follow has stopped.
p9fus · 2 years ago
I refuse to use it and I can't even view tweet "threads" properly, nor replies or any kind of coherent timeline.... its unusable

u/p9fus

KarmaCake day21April 8, 2024View Original