normalhuman (u/normalhuman)

normalhuman commented on Sunsetting Python 2 python.org/doc/sunset-pyt... · Posted by u/azizsaya

bradenb · 6 years ago

What confuses you about what I said? “Not being reddit” and “not being elitist” are not mutually exclusive.

EDIT: I think it's clear nothing more needs to be said. Feel free to respond to this comment or not. I've said my piece.

normalhuman · 6 years ago

Come on now, don't be disingenuous. Of course they are mutually exclusive, because you mean "not being reddit" as in "we are better than reddit" -- an elitist stance.

normalhuman commented on Sunsetting Python 2 python.org/doc/sunset-pyt... · Posted by u/azizsaya

bradenb · 6 years ago

Yes, it does pride itself on the quality of discussions. It also has done that just fine using the voting and flagging mechanisms. When I see comments criticizing others' comments I am always reminded of reddit. I think this is exactly what you're hoping to avoid when you come to HN.

Beyond that, who are we to judge what constitutes "good command of language?" Which language are we even talking about here? I don't think HN is going to become a better place by becoming more elitist.

normalhuman · 6 years ago

> When I see comments criticizing others' comments I am always reminded of reddit. I think this is exactly what you're hoping to avoid when you come to HN.

> I don't think HN is going to become a better place by becoming more elitist.

err...

normalhuman commented on Sunsetting Python 2 python.org/doc/sunset-pyt... · Posted by u/azizsaya

meowface · 6 years ago

This seems extremely pedantic. "Use case" as it's used today basically just means "case" or "situation" for a particular project or task or goal (edit: and for a particular individual/group/entity/organization). It's not business jargon or a buzzword term, even if perhaps it started off that way many decades ago.

I can think of countless annoying corporate buzzwords I see all the time on HN or at my job which are totally opaque and useless. "Use case" is two simple English words which anyone, including non-tech people, uses and clearly understands. This is not the hill to die on. I could link so many comments posted in the last week which are infinitely more buzzword-laden and irritating. If you really feel the dire necessity to chastise them, at least pick one of of those.

I do partly agree with you on "moving forward" or "going forward". I'm skeptical the situation was nearly as ambiguous as you suggest (it means "in the future", which is ambiguous, but it's no more ambiguous than saying "in the future", and anyone can easily request clarification if they hear "in the future"), but I had a few managers who said and wrote that like 30 times per day, and it does start to get on your nerves. Perhaps "use case" is similarly overused by some, but it also has a specific and clear meaning which would take longer to say/write than just using the term.

normalhuman · 6 years ago

> This seems extremely pedantic. "Use case" as it's used today basically just means "case" or "situation" for a particular project or task or goal. It's not business jargon or a buzzword term, even if perhaps it started off that way many decades ago.

Notice that you are already in contradiction with the first criticism that I received in this thread, where a subtle difference in meaning was proposed.

> it means "in the future", which is ambiguous, but it's no more ambiguous than saying "in the future",

The main point is that it is totally unnecessary, we already have the future tense to talk about what will happen in the future.

The same applies here. Remove the phrase with "use case" and you get exactly the same meaning, with less words and less cringe.

normalhuman commented on Sunsetting Python 2 python.org/doc/sunset-pyt... · Posted by u/azizsaya

gmfawcett · 6 years ago

You're picking much too fine a nit here. The OP's use of "personal use case" is not a distracting example of corporate speak. I knew exactly what he meant when he wrote it, and his usage did help to clarify that he was basing his statements on his use of the technology, and not on his personal feelings about it.

But if if this is a hard-stop item for you at this juncture, then we should circle back... I'm sure we can align on this going forward. ;)

normalhuman · 6 years ago

> You're picking much too fine a nit here.

I think you feel that way because of the HN/tech echo chamber. Nobody says or feels the need to say "use case" outside of such circles.

> But if if this is a hard-stop item for you at this juncture, then we should circle back... I'm sure we can align on this going forward. ;)

Hehe ;)

normalhuman commented on Sunsetting Python 2 python.org/doc/sunset-pyt... · Posted by u/azizsaya

bradenb · 6 years ago

I don't necessarily think you're wrong, but HN has a history of comments like this that criticize other comments and add nothing to the discussion. Mine is another example, but since you got the ball rolling I figure I might as well chime in.

I think the grandparent's usage of "use case" was totally fine. It wasn't distracting and it didn't change my reading of that comment in any way, shape, or form.

normalhuman · 6 years ago

> HN has a history of comments like this that criticize other comments and add nothing to the discussion

I disagree. HN is a place that seems to pride itself on the quality of its discussions, and on a higher intellectual caliber when compared to other Internet discussion venues. Surely a good command of language is part of that?

normalhuman commented on Sunsetting Python 2 python.org/doc/sunset-pyt... · Posted by u/azizsaya

gjm11 · 6 years ago

To me, "for me" and "for my use case" mean subtly but genuinely different things.

"For me" highlights the fact that my preferences, character, skills, etc., are different from other people's. Something might work well for me but badly for someone else because I happen to be good at working around its quirks, or bad at noticing its faults, or just not interested in the things it doesn't do.

"For my use case" highlights the fact that the things I need to do are different from other people's. Something might be good for my use case but bad for others' because I don't need very high performance but they do, or because I need the gostak to be able to distim the doshes backwards but they don't.

If I move on to doing different work and someone else takes my place, I expect something that works well "for me" to continue being useful for me but not for them, and something that works well "for my use case" to be useful for them but not for me.

normalhuman · 6 years ago

Corparate-speak that makes its way into common language is frequently justified post-hoc by subtle differences in meaning like the ones you allude to. The problem is that these differences are personal and subjective. Ask someone else, they might have a different answer. I have had the same discussion multiple times over the equally meaningless and inelegant "going forward".

"Use case" comes from 90s software engineering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case

Corporate-speak and cliché idioms makes one sound less clever, not more. It might temporarily signal belonging to some crowd (for example, the HN tech crowd), but in the long term it hampers one's ability to communicate in an effective and elegant way.