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navi0 commented on Creating an all-weather driver   waymo.com/blog/2025/10/cr... · Posted by u/boulos
darth_avocado · 2 months ago
Stop signs became universal. No reason why machine readable signals/devices to communicate don’t become the norm with law enforcement and emergency response workers.
navi0 · 2 months ago
Authorization and authentication will be the main challenge to solve here: who is authorized to issue those signals to the automated driver, and how are they authenticated so that malicious actors aren’t able to hijack the automated driver.
navi0 commented on Denmark close to wiping out cancer-causing HPV strains after vaccine roll-out   gavi.org/vaccineswork/den... · Posted by u/slu
v3ss0n · 3 months ago
Can I still take that vaccine regardless of sexual activity as a 41 years old male? Will it prevent centers that can cause by HPV?
navi0 · 3 months ago
It could still protect you from one or more strains that you haven’t been exposed to through sexual partners and avoid contracting or passing it along to a future partner. There’s no practical way for a man to be tested for HPV (I asked and the doc said “it’ll be very painful and the result will be the same: get the vax”)

I experienced zero side effects when I got HPV vaxxed at 38yo.

navi0 commented on Did California's fast food minimum wage reduce employment?   nber.org/papers/w34033... · Posted by u/lxm
unethical_ban · 4 months ago
You still didn't address the idea that there is a threshold for all intervention. You said "why not make $100hr minimum?" and the answer is "that's too high".

It sounds like, were you to acknowledge that thresholds exist somewhere for most things you think the threshold for minimum wage is 0 and that UBI and guaranteed services is a better mechanism.

Which is respectable, at least in that you recognize a government role in ensuring humane living conditions for its citizens. Most people who argue against a minimum wage seem to think any government action of any kind to protect or provide for citizens is "theft by taxation".

navi0 · 4 months ago
I don’t think there is a threshold for intervention in setting prices. If a $100/hr minimum wage is too high, then a $20/hr min wage will also be too high for plenty of employers and would-be employees who are now unable to legally transact. Safety standards create similar issues, but most typically require capex that can be amortized or depreciated (unlike labor opex).

I’m not opposed to taxes. When designed properly, they’re transparent and avoid excluding economic activity like min wages do.

navi0 commented on Did California's fast food minimum wage reduce employment?   nber.org/papers/w34033... · Posted by u/lxm
itsmek · 4 months ago
Ah sorry I was taking you seriously when you said "real question", I didn't realize it was a rhetorical device. The history of the minimum wage is pretty irrelevant compared to the economic models and empirical studies in that article, I'm not going to engage in such a pointless distraction. If the Nazis invented building codes I would still support them based purely on whether they are a good idea or not.

But you seem to be missing my point on housing code: do you support a nonzero housing code? Some is good, too much is bad. Same for minimum wage, many models and analyses show that some minimum wage improves productivity and counterintuitively increases employment in monopsonistic industries up to the point when they (partially) undo the damage the monopsony caused, at which point obviously a further increase in minimum wage causes damage as you say. My point is that your "real question" (which was an argumentative point in disguise) works rhetorically against nearly every intervention, some of which you certainly support (I tried to pick an obviously good intervention and came up with building code), and thus is a weak argument. If you truly support no market interventions I at least respect the internal consistency of your worldview but think you must underestimate how much food poisoning, fire death, servitude, etc it would cause.

navi0 · 4 months ago
Rhetorical questions are real questions and useful for exploring the logical fallacies that are embedded in ideas like minimum wage.

As shown by comments elsewhere, picking a minimum wage is often based on some imagined everyman/woman’s standard of living that may preclude others from earning a livelihood at all due to jobs never created or capital replacing labor because government decided by fiat that no work that generates less than $X/hr in output shall occur. Human skills and living arrangements are infinitely variable, and governments fail when they attempt to preclude people with lower skills from finding work.

In practice, very few workers earn the minimum wage, but union contracts are often tied to it, so unions like to advance laws that increase the minimum wage, which leads to the outcomes described in the parent post.

As economic policy, they’re also bad because inflating the price floor of labor fairly quickly feeds through to higher costs for housing, food, and services.

Safety standards (ie rules of the road) and competent enforcement are good roles for government, and while they do tend to increase operating costs and function as regulatory barriers to entry, setting prices is best left to markets.

Monopsonies are easily solved by workers moving out of the (labor) market controlled by the buyer to better job prospects. Claiming ancestral ties to a place, etc, as reasons for remaining are then the choice of the worker. If enough people leave, the employer will be forced to increase wages to attract workers.

navi0 commented on Did California's fast food minimum wage reduce employment?   nber.org/papers/w34033... · Posted by u/lxm
comex · 4 months ago
Because if the minimum wage is too high, employers can't afford to pay it, so it will just result in reduced employment rather than wages going up, aka economic "deadweight loss".

That much is obvious. What is in question is the effects of more realistic minimum wages like this one. Some claim that _any_ minimum wage will only result in deadweight loss, which is true in simplified models, but the effect in the real world is not so clear, hence the need for this type of research.

navi0 · 4 months ago
Yes, I agree: this research shows that governments do a poor job when they attempt to set minimum wages, and they would do better to focus on accomplishing income redistribution policies through the tax code.

When government tries to set minimum wages, they often result in job losses (or foregone jobs that were never created) which, as you wrote, is known in economic circles as "deadweight loss."

navi0 commented on Did California's fast food minimum wage reduce employment?   nber.org/papers/w34033... · Posted by u/lxm
itsmek · 4 months ago
Your question can be applied to literally any market intervention with a grey area. If housing code is good policy why not make all houses 10 times as strong?

If your question is why is minimum wage a good policy, you could start here for a summary of the arguments and evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage

navi0 · 4 months ago
It's the same question, really. If we make housing too expensive to build through stricter codes, then housing won't get built and at some point (e.g., last decade in California discussed in the parent article), the homeless population increases and people/businesses decide to relocate because the math doesn't work.

I don't think a full look at the history of minimum wages will be kind to their supporters. Minimum wages were created by labor unions for the sole purpose of excluding other workers who are more productive or less expensive than their members[0].

Going back further, labor unions were created during the railroad boom by racist white workers to exclude Chinese laborers who were 2x more productive for the same price. Instead of responding to competition by getting better, American railroad workers formed labor unions and lobbied politicians for relief, culminating in the Chinese Exclusion Act [1] that forcibly expelled 400,000 Chinese immigrants and led to some horrific violence and racism towards Asian people in this country.

In all cases, the role of government should not be to mandate wages or prices or anything else that markets are better suited to establish, or there will necessarily be higher unemployment. Governments can help by establishing some health and safety standards and policing abuses, but when it comes to accomplishing the social goals that minimum wages intend to, that's better done through tax policy and income redistribution (e.g., guaranteed minimum income, earned income tax credit, welfare benefits).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workingmen%27s_Party_of_Califo... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

navi0 commented on Did California's fast food minimum wage reduce employment?   nber.org/papers/w34033... · Posted by u/lxm
watwut · 4 months ago
How is that a real question? If it is reasonable to make a policy with number X, how come it is not reasonable to make a policy 5X or 0?

Because you intentionally picked large unreasonable number and now want to argue it implies much smaller number is reasonable.

If maximum speed of 50km/h is reasonable in cities, why not making it 5km/h?

navi0 · 4 months ago
Another reply already addresses your question about speed limits, which is another great example through which to examine these questions.

"Reasonable" is a completely subjective standard and not a good way to run a complex economy with an infinite combination of job seekers and providers.

Who gets to decide what is reasonable has big real world implications for millions of people. Get it wrong, and as we see in California here, people lose their jobs and businesses close all because some politician or bureaucrat (or misinformed voter) thinks they know better than workers and employers what the correct price for labor should be.

navi0 commented on Did California's fast food minimum wage reduce employment?   nber.org/papers/w34033... · Posted by u/lxm
zeroCalories · 4 months ago
It would be more efficient to pay someone market rate, have needed work get done, and subsidize their existence than to try and offload that cost onto employers.
navi0 · 4 months ago
Exactly. Minimum wages are an attempt to solve economic redistribution policies by obfuscating the cost to employers rather through the tax code, which is the cleanest way to achieve the goals of broad based prosperity.

It also has consequences like increasing the attractiveness of substituting capital (i.e., automation) for labor or simply leaving some work undone (e.g., many smaller restaurants in CA are going out of business due to multiple government policies, including very high minimum wages).

navi0 commented on Did California's fast food minimum wage reduce employment?   nber.org/papers/w34033... · Posted by u/lxm
bawolff · 4 months ago
> Real question: If government-mandated wages are good policy, why not set the minimum wage to $100/hr?

Because min wage policies have a cost and a benefit. The benefit only happens at relatively low numbers (enough for basic necessities). After that point you dont get more benefits but the costs still increase.

navi0 · 4 months ago
Please define basic necessities.

Is a three-bedroom house in [pick nicest neighborhood in any metro area] a necessity?

How about a one-bedroom apartment in the same neighborhood?

An in-law unit (e.g., "granny flat") on a farm just outside town?

A room in a six-bedroom co-op house where meals are collectively prepared and shared?

Same could be asked about food, clothes, etc. I can buy used clothes for $5 or new ones for $100.

"Basic necessities" is woolly term that in practice is full of paternalistic value judgements. Every individual has a variety of resources to draw upon that would make them willing/unwilling to work a job at a given wage.

A government-mandated minimum wage means some people who could find employment will not because their output do not exceed the wages the government has declared must be paid. In practice, it also means many people starting out in life or who are less skilled never get the chance to be hired and learn new skills that increase their pay.

Minimum wages remove the lowest rungs on the job ladder that often teach skills required to be successful higher up.

navi0 commented on Did California's fast food minimum wage reduce employment?   nber.org/papers/w34033... · Posted by u/lxm
zeroCalories · 4 months ago
Just because a law is simple does not mean it's efficient. We are talking about the total value being produced. But if you want simple, something like a negative income tax would be simple and decently efficient.
navi0 · 4 months ago
This already exists: Earned Income Tax Credit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_tax_credit

u/navi0

KarmaCake day186January 17, 2020View Original