mindover (u/mindover)

mindover commented on Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoffs won’t stop them fortune.com/2022/12/16/in... · Posted by u/jesuscript

rhino369 · 3 years ago

Portuguese don’t count a PoC. Unless their ancestors moved to Brazil—then they count.

mindover · 3 years ago

Don’t count where? If a person looks like they are from a warmer region and speaks Portuguese - unless they object - they will be classified as a PoC by most people in the US. Maybe the government disagrees but that is relevant only in very few specific situations.

Also, if their parents moved to Brazil in the 1960s they somehow became a PoC? Does the actual ancestry matter or are we just assuming that everyone who is not from Europe is a PoC?

mindover commented on Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoffs won’t stop them fortune.com/2022/12/16/in... · Posted by u/jesuscript

xyzzyz · 3 years ago

Funnily enough, according to official government racial classification scheme, the white looking immigrant Brazilian of European ancestry from your example is a non-Hispanic white, whereas native Spaniard immigrant from actual Spain is Hispanic white.

mindover · 3 years ago

There is way more to race classification than the government classification. Talking to people, selecting the right choice in a questionnaire, applying for a job - no one is verifying person’s ancestry. If you are from Brazil you are a PoC by default, unless you object.

mindover commented on Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoffs won’t stop them fortune.com/2022/12/16/in... · Posted by u/jesuscript

0xcafefood · 3 years ago

"they focus on promotions, career advancements, power consolidation, and not as much on work as the end goal in itself."

If true, that behavior in anyone should be criticized. This sounds to me like "gaming the system."

mindover · 3 years ago

I disagree. This is just a different relationship with work - not better and not worse. Being focused on career advancements doesn’t make them (sorry for generalizing again) worse engineers or worse colleagues. Eg I don’t care about my IC level and enjoy coding, someone else cares more about their IC level and enjoys coding. Why should I care?

mindover commented on Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoffs won’t stop them fortune.com/2022/12/16/in... · Posted by u/jesuscript

rayiner · 3 years ago

> Earlier in July, Sowmyanarayan Sampath took over as the CEO of Verizon Business and Jayathi Murthy became the President of Oregon State University–the first woman of color to take this position.

This is why I don’t answer to “person of color.” Indian Americans have nearly double the median white income. They live almost 8 years longer than white Americans. (Heck, Asian women make more money than white men, while Asian men live longer than white women.) Even the ones that grow up here in poverty have vastly higher income mobility as adults than whites. What clarity or insight is gained by grouping them together with other minorities suffering from generational poverty? In fact if the goal is helping people, it would make way more sense to include folks like Appalachians and Cajuns, who also suffer from generational poverty. That might give you real insight into root causes.

And when white people use the label, it’s offensive as fuck. “We are going to group you together with people you have nothing in common with economically, historically, or culturally, because you’re all ‘coloreds’ to us!”

mindover · 3 years ago

I know I am not in a position to complain (I am a “white” European) but I would be furious if I was so often grouped into a completely arbitrary race/ethnicity/skin color/country of birth based group and made assumptions about.

I have never met a single European who would differentiate between a Portuguese and a German based on their skin color. But if that Portuguese person moves to the US they are suddenly a PoC and a victim of white oppression.

mindover commented on Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoffs won’t stop them fortune.com/2022/12/16/in... · Posted by u/jesuscript

farnsworth · 3 years ago

> “We are going to group you together with people you have nothing in common with economically, historically, or culturally, because you’re all ‘coloreds’ to us!”

Don't you think it's _describing_ this grouping, not _prescribing_ it? The truth is that racism isn't rational or know what your net worth is.

mindover · 3 years ago

How is it describing it though? What does a white-looking immigrant Brazilian of European ancestry have in common with a Native American? How does labeling both as PoC address any inequality?

mindover commented on Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoffs won’t stop them fortune.com/2022/12/16/in... · Posted by u/jesuscript

delta_p_delta_x · 3 years ago

Can someone explain why every single thread about Indians—whether it be here, on Reddit, or on Quora—is somehow allowed to become insidiously racist?

'Indians are sycophants', 'Indians don't speak English well', 'Indians are corrupt', 'Indians are good at office politics'—all from this thread alone.

I am trying to respond as civilly as possible without swearing, but this phenomenon is making it increasingly hard to do so.

Somehow white people are allowed to be 'sycophants', but Indians aren't? Somehow white people were allowed to trod all over Asia and Africa (many still are) for half a millennium, and coughed up racist theories to justify their borderline enslavement of non-whites, and evangelise their religion and culture[1]. But then when non-white people succeed, it's 'corruption' or 'nepotism'?

India is a country of 1.5 billion people. Include the rest of the Indian subcontinent and that number becomes nearly two billion. One quarter of the human population is from that region. Given these numbers, is it that surprising that Indians are quickly reaching the highest echelons of corporate America/Europe? By numbers alone, Indians still outnumber both the US and the EU, combined.

The region is still developing. India is a democracy, and the democracy is an absolute cacophony. It has taken its time to develop, and is frequently compared to a certain other neighbouring country with a similarly large population. That country had (and still has) no qualms in murdering millions of people to achieve its goals. India does not do that, and will bring its populace forward and upward, slowly but steadily.

These stereotypes are old, unfair, and unjustified. I am extremely unhappy that this is silently accepted, while racism against Blacks is white-knighted against.

[1]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Civiliza...

mindover · 3 years ago

It’s ok to question any hiring discrimination and share personal observations about group behavior.

However I agree with you that some of the comments are close to being derogatory.

In my experience (as I have shared below) many Indians are more career oriented than, say, Europeans. No criticism here, I personally don’t care and love my Indian colleagues.

mindover commented on Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoffs won’t stop them fortune.com/2022/12/16/in... · Posted by u/jesuscript

hgsgm · 3 years ago

"Culture fit" is bad when it's not my group doing it?

mindover · 3 years ago

There is no group culture fit at tech companies. It’s always a company culture fit, ie “groupless” in theory.

mindover commented on Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoffs won’t stop them fortune.com/2022/12/16/in... · Posted by u/jesuscript

jesuscript · 3 years ago

Can you explain what makes them good at it?

I’m guessing be a grade A yes-man has a lot to do with it.

mindover · 3 years ago

In my experience many Indians are very career oriented (mean that with no criticism). Ie they focus on promotions, career advancements, power consolidation, and not as much on work as the end goal in itself. Again, not criticizing, just an observation. In some cases I wish I was more career oriented too.

mindover commented on Indians are taking over corporate America–and tech layoffs won’t stop them fortune.com/2022/12/16/in... · Posted by u/jesuscript

raincom · 3 years ago

One thing to watch for Indian management chain: sycophancy is rampant. Sycophancy hides company's ills.

mindover · 3 years ago

Never noticed that in tech. I guess flattery is not very common in this industry in general.