kodapoda (u/kodapoda)

kodapoda commented on Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future npr.org/2023/11/03/120986... · Posted by u/toomuchtodo

kristopolous · 2 years ago

Kitkatklub dress code is wacky. They're insanely serious about it but it's easy to conform to. It's a costume party.

As to the other point, you can separate the process to avoid the kind of blanket discrimination I think we can all agree is unethical. I bet they don't make the slightest effort. It's probably one guy that checks your ID and says yes/no and one guy that takes money. It could be 3 instead of 2 to avoid, just to be crazy, saying no to all the Jewish names, but it's not.

Next time I'm in Berlin, I'll try to remember to take a clicker with me and stand outside the place. I bet you'll start to notice a few interesting patterns that America has quite a few laws against. I've only heard them to be extremely proud of their bias so I'd be surprised if you didn't start seeing just classic discrimination because that's what humans appear to naturally do unless they work really really hard at it or have some structures to prevent it.

kodapoda · 2 years ago

You could approach visiting Berghain the same way you do with KitKatClub. I don't recommend it, but you could. Treat it as a costume party - match the expectations, dress up appropriately, come with a friendly group.

kodapoda commented on Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future npr.org/2023/11/03/120986... · Posted by u/toomuchtodo

kristopolous · 2 years ago

But it excludes arbitrary people from the community for arbitrary and superficial reasons.

Why is this so hard to understand?

kodapoda · 2 years ago

This is an exaggeration. All communities have something that make them a community, and not just an everchanging group of random people. Is being into techno a random or superficial reason for being a part of the techno community? Is looking and being friendly a superficial reason for being a part of an intentionally accepting community? This is the same argument people use in many other contexts where inclusion is conflated with having no rules and preferences. Should gay sex parties admit large groups of drunk aggressive lads just because gay parties are supposed to be inclusive? This approach ends up compromising the community itself, it really doesn't benefit the cause.

kodapoda commented on Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future npr.org/2023/11/03/120986... · Posted by u/toomuchtodo

projectazorian · 2 years ago

As if Berghain is still a community venue, as opposed to a bunch of ur-capitalist hustlers selling the idea of community to lost and naive souls.

Community and scale do not mix. If the founders truly cared about community they would have wound the place up in about 2010 and done something new.

But once people experience a bit of success greed inevitably takes over…

kodapoda · 2 years ago

I see your point, but a community venue and constantly wounding up and starting anew also don't mix. It's an unfortunate outcome of the scale and the system we live in. If Berghain was a XII century monastery in an inaccessible place it could have maintained a community venue for centuries. A large club in the techno capital of the world has to resort to a different approach if it wants to maintain at least some level of continuity, status, and quality for its community.

kodapoda commented on U.S. cities consider banning "right on red" laws amid rise in pedestrian deaths cbsnews.com/news/pedestri... · Posted by u/MilnerRoute

ShadowBanThis01 · 2 years ago

"By this argument there is nothing wrong with texting while driving."

By what argument? Oh right: none floated here. You should start a scarecrow factory with all the strawmen you're churning out.

Play dumb elsewhere. This is boring. Buh-bye.

kodapoda · 2 years ago

Are you able to read what you type or is it one or the other for you?

> By what argument? Oh right: none floated here.

> There's nothing wrong with turning right on red.

The fact that you are unable top pay attention to your own comments makes total sense. Explains everything you said earlier.

Please be careful when taking right turns on red, with your non-existent attention span you are bound to injure someone.

kodapoda commented on Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future npr.org/2023/11/03/120986... · Posted by u/toomuchtodo

bin_bash · 2 years ago

The article is literally about Berghain.

kodapoda · 2 years ago

I don't fully follow the anecdata in this article. They mention that Berghain had to raise its cover charge to "deal with rising costs" (understandable, considering the inflation), not that they have fewer patrons.

kodapoda commented on Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future npr.org/2023/11/03/120986... · Posted by u/toomuchtodo

kristopolous · 2 years ago

So your argument is that it's a popular tourist attraction so instead of capitalizing on it by say opening a second, moving to a bigger space, having more events, selling tickets in advance or charging higher prices they instead openly and famously discriminate based on physical appearance?

In Germany. Let me guess, they look at your ID to check your name and nationality first. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I bet I'm not.

Btw, KitKatClub doesn't do that and they're equally famous.

kodapoda · 2 years ago

I am reminded that we are on a tech forum :) Do they need to capitalize, scale, open franchise clubs all over the world? Techno clubs are not about that at their best.

Door policy is discrimination only in the sense that the very few people at the door have to make a swift judgment on whether your group will fit in. Can this be upsetting? Sure!

> In Germany. Let me guess, they look at your ID to check your name and nationality first.

By this logic liquor stores in the US also discriminate based on person's nationality since they check the ID.

KitKatClub has a strict dress code policy for their sex-oriented events.

kodapoda commented on Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future npr.org/2023/11/03/120986... · Posted by u/toomuchtodo

ahartmetz · 2 years ago

> It's an exclusive techno club considered by many to be the best in the world.

Being exclusive is really against the ethos of techno in Berlin. The "exclusivity" at the door is usually about achieving a fun mix of people and keeping out the ones who cannot behave.

As an occasional clubber in Berlin, these "best" things are ridiculous. The "best" kebab place with the long queue is nothing special at all, and Berghain is, apart from the building and the (mostly gay) sex stuff (which don't do much for me) a club like many others. It's never been my favorite - the vibe can be surprisingly aggressive and the music is often not that good for my taste. I used to go there for specific acts or along with friends only. Haven't bothered for years now. Nowadays it's also become expensive, cashing in on its dubious status.

There is a thing that the "best" kebab place and the "best" club have in common: kebab places and clubs are both very good in Berlin, so if you go to the one that the tourist guide / TikTok recommended, you're probably going to have a good time - but maybe you don't know that there are many other just as good or better places.

kodapoda · 2 years ago

I don't mean "exclusive" as in a "VIP club" a-la some Miami venues. Exclusive meaning really hard to get into.

kodapoda commented on X is reportedly selling inactive usernames for $50k pcmag.com/news/x-is-repor... · Posted by u/grammers

x0x0 · 2 years ago

Twitter implemented the blue check originally due to impersonation issues. You can read the history on wikipedia, but Tony La Russa sued Twitter over it and the blue checks where the outcome. I'm not an attorney, but it seems not black and white.

kodapoda · 2 years ago

This is conflating two separate concerns: a private company can do whatever it wants with its own user handles. Sell them, seize them, delete them. Impersonation, on the other hand, can be challenged in the court of law.

Twitter will certainly prioritize the sale of short handles, single word handles, common name handles, and not something like @apple (just because of the volume of squatted and unused handles that can be easily monetized). If they seize and sell @apple, and the new account will impersonate the company Apple - that's a totally different legal situation. If the sold account will just post pics of apples, I don't think the crime of impersonation would be relevant.

kodapoda commented on Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future npr.org/2023/11/03/120986... · Posted by u/toomuchtodo

kristopolous · 2 years ago

Counterpoint: Hacker News, CDMX EBM scene, goth scene, LA underground art scene, SF renegade rave scene, Latin bars, gay clubs like the EndUp, which have been open and welcoming since 1971, gay black scene, free software movement, gay Asian scene in any city, bear bars, salsa clubs, martial arts clubs, drag bars, anime scene, furry scene, hiking groups, Trekkies, adventurer clubs, punk scene, bicycle riders groups, astronomy groups, ball room dancing groups, central american danza cultural groups, alcoholics anonymous... Even prestigious universities have countless open proseminars where you can just walk in off the street to a graduate symposium. I've gone to many, you really just walk in the door.

I'd argue the majority of cliques and scenes are extremely accepting and people self filter. Having a discriminating door guy is just being an asshole.

kodapoda · 2 years ago

You can go out to hundreds of bars in Berlin without any door policy whatsoever. Legendary bars, cool bars, gay bars, etc. It's not like the whole of Berlin is segregated.

But this approach just wouldn't benefit some popular dance clubs. Without a solid door policy clubs would be stuffed with people who come there for wrong reasons. To pick up girls, to get drunk, to visit an attraction for the sake of a visit (not because they enjoy techno music), to get into a fight, etc etc. Have you ever been to a poorly managed club? They don't have a community, don't focus on a holistic clubbing experience, have many people with really bad vibes. Would you want to stay there for a night and the next day (night time + day time raves)?

> underground cliques

Let's be honest, techno is not underground in Berlin, these clubs are a massive tourist attraction. Berghain is not a 50 person dive bar in SOMA.

kodapoda commented on Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future npr.org/2023/11/03/120986... · Posted by u/toomuchtodo

Blahah · 2 years ago

That's genuinely nothing to do with why the Berlin clubs with strict entry policies are great. The experience inside doesn't feel exclusive, it's beautiful - people being free and really immersed in the music, supporting and taking care of one another, creating myriad moments of connection and joy, and a very much lower rate of people being obnoxious or in conflict than in a regular club. It's totally unlike being in a club that doesn't have the same kind of entry standards, and each club has a unique culture that is upheld in part by their door staff.

kodapoda · 2 years ago

Exactly, I feel like people who complain about this have never experienced anything close to what you describe. Strict door policy benefits the club goers. If you want to go pick up girls with some sweaty dudes looking for a fight - that's fine, there are many clubs like that in any European country, including Germany.