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kelo-hn commented on Show HN: Breakout with a roguelite/vampire survivor twist   breakout.lecaro.me/... · Posted by u/lecarore
kelo-hn · 6 months ago
1. I agree about the balance, and I also like the ideas you suggested.

2. Yeah, I noticed. It'd be great if the run would continue from there!

3. Oh, I had never noticed that (maybe because it doesn't really look like a button nor a link). Totally not a "missing feature" issue then (and maybe more like an affordance issue).

4. All nice ideas, but as you mentioned they can definitely wait. Also, let me reiterate that the game is already great, no big change is needed in my opinion. A few small additions might be nice, but I'd keep it simple (and from what I could gather we should definitely agree on this one).

As for the bug, I'll see if I manage to reproduce it on the web version when I have a bit more time. And don't worry about the fix, there's no hurry of course.

kelo-hn · 6 months ago
Update on the bug: I could not reproduce it on the web version, but in the process I have found something else.

(I already emailed the videos to Renan, I'm posting this here to the benefit of all future lurkers).

1. The ball goes through Sturdy bricks sometimes, but it does not break nor bounce back after hitting them (and indeed this does not cause a miss). I guess this is somehow related to Color Piercing or Piercing (or both).

2. Easy Cleanup activates twice if the latest Respawn happens before all the coins have been caught or fallen off screen (I had Lv 1 on both perks). Here's what happened: the ball hit the second to last brick, the last one is automatically destroyed, but then another one gets respawned and quickly destroyed again.

The first one is a bit jarring, the second one is so marginal that I doubt it even warrants the time investment (but I thought you better knew about it).

Also, two more non-bug related updates:

3. Boring cheat – I found out a way to farm points: if you have Respawn Lv 3 or 4 you can endlessly hit the same cluster of bricks, and if you manage to put the pluck in a comfortable position (i.e. straight line) it's very easy to farm plenty of coins with the aid of appropriate combo perks. No video though, this happened on the app while I was playing casually (it's quite easy to reproduce, though). I wouldn't do that because it's mind-numbingly dull, but still I'm not sure this kind of play is intended or if it should even be allowed.

4. Combo balancing – one thing that makes the best strategy overly dominant is the way combo resets abruptly with everything other than Compound Interest, which pairs exceptionally well to Coin Magnet (which is in itself instrumental to scoring high). If the other combos would scale down accordingly (i.e. 1 coin less when you hit the walls/ceiling/puck – or at least drop some percentage, but not all of the combo at once). This would instantly make many more strategies and combinations viable, because right now it doesn't make much sense to pair Compound Interest to any other combo perks (except in very specific circumstances).

Deleted Comment

kelo-hn commented on Show HN: Breakout with a roguelite/vampire survivor twist   breakout.lecaro.me/... · Posted by u/lecarore
lecarore · 6 months ago
Hi Mick,

1. I'll improve the onboarding, but it's a balance between too much text and too little. I think i'll "unlock" some things like the default perk, extra upgrades by playing better, etc.. after a while, and explain them at that time.

2. You can click menu/unlocks/perk name to try the perk, but only for one level. Maybe i could instead start a normal run with that perk.

3. clicking the score at the top right lets you see what perk you have and restarts the game. The button didn't work at some points, but in the latest version (web) it definitely works. Again, it's a "missing tutorial" issue, more than "missing features"

4. The game indeed has a dominant strategy, I haven't reached 66k high score at all, but I can see some perks work better than others. I was thinking about a challenge of not using a perk. So, high score without multiball. High score without hot start. This would make alternative strategies more interesting to develop. Another option would be "hard mode", where the bricks take more hits, perks are rarer, missing resets the level score, missing a coin reduces score... some new level of challenge basically.

I think all those points can wait a bit though, except the ball stuck one, where i'd love to have more details. If you play on web, you can turn game recording on in the menu, and share the video of any odd behavior. This bug is at the top of my todo, but I also have a job and it's not easy to reproduce, so it might take a little while to fix it.

kelo-hn · 6 months ago
1. I agree about the balance, and I also like the ideas you suggested.

2. Yeah, I noticed. It'd be great if the run would continue from there!

3. Oh, I had never noticed that (maybe because it doesn't really look like a button nor a link). Totally not a "missing feature" issue then (and maybe more like an affordance issue).

4. All nice ideas, but as you mentioned they can definitely wait. Also, let me reiterate that the game is already great, no big change is needed in my opinion. A few small additions might be nice, but I'd keep it simple (and from what I could gather we should definitely agree on this one).

As for the bug, I'll see if I manage to reproduce it on the web version when I have a bit more time. And don't worry about the fix, there's no hurry of course.

kelo-hn commented on Show HN: Breakout with a roguelite/vampire survivor twist   breakout.lecaro.me/... · Posted by u/lecarore
kelo-hn · 6 months ago
Renan, this is absolutely captivating!

I randomly downloaded it from F-Droid a few days ago, and I've played it a lot (100% unlocked and 66k high score so far, still looking for even more strategies though).

I wanted to bring to your attention a bug that can abruptly end a run: the Respawn perk may cause the ball(s) to keep floating in the void, with no bricks left to hit (it has happened twice, I suppose it's related to Respawn but can't be 100% sure).

Also, I've read in a few comments about features and stuff: I think they're not really needed and even potentially harmful. I love the game simplicity.

What could be improved, in my opinion, is that:

1. The onboarding feels weird

It took me a while to understand how the game really worked. As an example, the metrics for getting upgrades and choices is not explicitly stated in the app, I had to figure it out myself (although I later found some details on the mechanics after digging your website and other sources like HN). A quick optional tutorial may be helpful.

(Other things that were unclear to me at first were the combo and miss indicators. I've notices that the web version does a much better job at signalling misses, I guess probably F-Droid lags behind as usual.)

2. Players can't choose the initial perk

Random is great, but if I'm going for a specific strat I may have to reset a bunch of times to get something I can work with. Which brings us to...

3. Players can't easily reset the run

If I want to restart, I have to (1) find out what perk I have and (2) literally lose the ball. It would be nice to (1) know in advance the starting perk and (2) have a reset button or option in the menu.

Last but not least, there's the game balancing aspect. I feel that some perks are really detrimental to your score, which makes some strategies are clearly superior and others just not viable unless you're optimizing for some other metrics (i.e. you're speedrunning, so time becomes more valuable than coins).

An idea would be to refine the combo increase/decrease and/or upgrade system and/or the ultimate goal of the game, i.e. making top score categories for "most coins", "less time", "least bricks broken", etc.

All in all, the game is already great as is – so I hope it won't change too much.

Thanks for your efforts!

kelo-hn · 6 months ago
Update: the bug happened one more time, even if I did not choose Respawn. Also, the app crashed on startup once (I couldn't reproduce that, though). Also, new high score (152k), but the run statistics comparison of best 10 run looks kinda glitched (it won't show all the scores).
kelo-hn commented on Show HN: Breakout with a roguelite/vampire survivor twist   breakout.lecaro.me/... · Posted by u/lecarore
kelo-hn · 6 months ago
Renan, this is absolutely captivating!

I randomly downloaded it from F-Droid a few days ago, and I've played it a lot (100% unlocked and 66k high score so far, still looking for even more strategies though).

I wanted to bring to your attention a bug that can abruptly end a run: the Respawn perk may cause the ball(s) to keep floating in the void, with no bricks left to hit (it has happened twice, I suppose it's related to Respawn but can't be 100% sure).

Also, I've read in a few comments about features and stuff: I think they're not really needed and even potentially harmful. I love the game simplicity.

What could be improved, in my opinion, is that:

1. The onboarding feels weird

It took me a while to understand how the game really worked. As an example, the metrics for getting upgrades and choices is not explicitly stated in the app, I had to figure it out myself (although I later found some details on the mechanics after digging your website and other sources like HN). A quick optional tutorial may be helpful.

(Other things that were unclear to me at first were the combo and miss indicators. I've notices that the web version does a much better job at signalling misses, I guess probably F-Droid lags behind as usual.)

2. Players can't choose the initial perk

Random is great, but if I'm going for a specific strat I may have to reset a bunch of times to get something I can work with. Which brings us to...

3. Players can't easily reset the run

If I want to restart, I have to (1) find out what perk I have and (2) literally lose the ball. It would be nice to (1) know in advance the starting perk and (2) have a reset button or option in the menu.

Last but not least, there's the game balancing aspect. I feel that some perks are really detrimental to your score, which makes some strategies are clearly superior and others just not viable unless you're optimizing for some other metrics (i.e. you're speedrunning, so time becomes more valuable than coins).

An idea would be to refine the combo increase/decrease and/or upgrade system and/or the ultimate goal of the game, i.e. making top score categories for "most coins", "less time", "least bricks broken", etc.

All in all, the game is already great as is – so I hope it won't change too much.

Thanks for your efforts!

u/kelo-hn

KarmaCake day1March 4, 2025View Original