jackfruit2 (u/jackfruit2)

jackfruit2 commented on Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed? · Posted by u/jackfruit2

huijzer · 3 years ago

Monish Pabrai talked about this exact topic recently, see https://open.spotify.com/episode/66DUjiw7nQK6hgk91qNXz9?si=f... or https://youtu.be/gE48QKFGEhI

Monish Pabrai used to be a software engineer and launched a company while he was working. This company grew to a few million in annual revenue. He‘s also the author of two investing books and sat down for a lunch with Warren Buffet and regularly has dinner with Carlie Munger.

jackfruit2 · 3 years ago

Thanks for the link as it was an awesome. Quite inspirational in fact.

jackfruit2 commented on Ask HN: How to validate a startup idea whilst employed? · Posted by u/jackfruit2

sarcasmatwork · 3 years ago

>employed under employment contract to assign both moral rights and intellectual property to their employer.

This is usually when you're on company time with company assets. If you're at home/coffee shop and off the clock and on your assets/pc its your IP.

Do you have a contract with current employer that has this specific language? I would understand a term for a non-compete agreement, but what you're saying does not sound right/legal from my perspective.

> I'm considering leaving a very well paid software developer job to free myself of this obligation

Do it!

It might take 6 months, a year or longer to make a profit. Can you afford that? Do you have other revenue streams? Does your current employer contract bind you to any terms if you quit?

Questions I don't need to know, but you should.

Good luck!

jackfruit2 · 3 years ago

Yeah my contract is very wide in my opinion, given there is always some level of overlap when developing software. Unfortunaly I signed it unchallenged when needing employment during the pandemic :(

Below is an excerpt from my contract:

We understand that lots of our employees have tech related ideas that they work on outside of working hours. In a case where your idea overlaps or conflicts with the work of said company, you agree to the following:

1. You will promptly provide to said company, and otherwise keep confidential, full written details of all inventions, copyright works or designs originated, conceived, written or made by you, alone or with others (“Intellectual Property”), and work relating to Intellectual Property that you have worked on at any time during the course of your employment with said company which relate to, or are reasonably capable of being used in, the business of said company ("Employment IP"). Unless otherwise agreed in writing by the CEO, you are assigning said company absolutely all rights, title, benefits and interests in the Employment IP. The reason for this clause is to protect the Intellectual Property of the Company from infringement or misuse that may damage the position of said company in the market or our ability to serve our clients.

2. You hereby assign to said company with full title guarantee by way of assignment all present and future copyright, database and design rights and other proprietary rights (if any) for the full term of such rights throughout the world in respect of all Intellectual Property and you waive in favour of said company all moral rights conferred by Chapter 4 Part 1 of the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988 and all similar rights in other jurisdictions.

3. You irrevocably appoint said company as your attorney to execute any instrument and do any such thing for the purpose of giving to the Company the full benefit of clause 1.

----

I could probably last 3 years or so with no other revenue streams. There is no rent or mortgage payments needed as I bought a cheap property that is now paid in full. That was part and parcel of the preparation for leaving fulltime employment, to give the startup / product development an attempt on my own and ensure that my runway could go further if needed.

I do have a lengthy notice period, but that is priced in. Also if this venture fails, I will re-enter the market as freelancer to pick up where I left off. Also forget asking the CEO about it or personal assistent, the're far to busy to be concerned with a "tin pot / pie in the sky" idea / product.

I just don't understand why founders, and those advocating for the startup life don't provide advise in this thorny area as it affects so many of us?

Do folks go dark, build in secret, pretending they had executed their plan outside of the course/term of their employment?

I have advised others is to perform research round their ideas by upskilling in areas that they'll need to prove out their ideas. This I hope will minimise the time to build (once departed) without establishing real intellectual property whilst employed. Perform spikes and mini experiements with the technology, without building the final idea and upon departure begin the actual build.

Wondering if folks consider that a sensible strategy or could iterate on it?

Keen on your thoughts.

jackfruit2 commented on Ask HN: Any Recommendations for Employment IP Lawyer in the UK · Posted by u/jackfruit2

celticninja · 4 years ago

Why not start with talking to your company. This is standard legalese that says your employer owns anything you create whilst employed by them. As you have not yet started on anything it would be a good time to talk to them about getting this clarified. Don't rely on them verbally confirming that "we would never enforce this".

You can at least see if they are agreeable to changing it in principal before you bring in a lawyer. If you are to rewrite the clause then you need a lawyer.

If the company says "that's the clause you signed and we will enforce" you save yourself the hassle of dealing with a lawyer and can make decisions about whether you stay in that employment or if you look elsewhere and negotiate that clause in your way into new employment.

It should be noted that unfair terms like this could be challenged on grounds of reasonablness, but that would definitely required lawyers and could be expensive, and the company could probably out spend you on this. Making any side project a huge drain on your resources and making it difficult to get investors/buyers.

jackfruit2 · 4 years ago

Thanks for your response, which I found quite sensible. I think you are right in discussing with employer. I guess it could be overreach that should really be negotiated and fine tuned. I'll have a chat with them and see what they respond with.

jackfruit2 commented on Ask HN: How do you plan and track your tasks? · Posted by u/aljgz

jackfruit2 · 4 years ago

I actually use JIRA with a Kanban board for my side project. Its working really well for my side project, integrating with bitbucket. I've done over 400 tickets so far.

jackfruit2 commented on Ask HN: Using an LLC to protect side project IP · Posted by u/jackfruit2

jackfruit2 · 4 years ago

Thanks guys for your responses. Some great discussion. I definitely need a lawyer or alternatively might just develop my idea in secret and leave on completion for clarity.

I have established a LLC before I was employed by another company. The company was fine with me having both a job with them plus running my LLC after checking with legal. The IP assignments clause was a little murky hence the original question.

I knew I should have requested a contract amendment but I was desperately trying to get a job at the start of the pandemic.

jackfruit2 commented on Would senior engineers be interested in working reduced hours or part time? · Posted by u/curiousresearch

jackfruit2 · 4 years ago

I wonder what happens during crunch?

jackfruit2 commented on Ask HN: Should I write a Help menu for my application? · Posted by u/tentacleuno

jackfruit2 · 4 years ago

For my application I'm thinking of serving the help online on my website. It's an opportunity to gain more traffic, thus another opportunity to sell more products.