Readit News logoReadit News
imjustapie commented on By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation   blog.achernya.com/2017/06... · Posted by u/catherinezng
mintplant · 8 years ago
At UCSD we not only got a public IPv4 address for each device but also an automatic *.dynamic.ucsd.edu subdomain assignment based on the device hostname. Came in handy for my Raspberry Pi.
imjustapie · 8 years ago
Yep, that's the way it's traditionally been at MIT as well. The DHCP hosts get things like DHCP-ipaddressspelledoutinenglish.mit.edu. The fear is that it's all going away.
imjustapie commented on By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation   blog.achernya.com/2017/06... · Posted by u/catherinezng
compuguy · 8 years ago
Honestly that sounds like a better alternative, than hosting on bare metal.
imjustapie · 8 years ago
By default the service max out at 512 MB of RAM (yes, the service was invented in a different decade, way before AWS was cool). So if I want anything more than that, I'm better off running my own server.

Also ironically, I can't reach any of the newly NAT'd networks from my XVM instance. I bet the XVM maintainers haven't been warned about the NAT.

imjustapie commented on By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation   blog.achernya.com/2017/06... · Posted by u/catherinezng
timdorr · 8 years ago
> Forcing people to use anything is never a good way to promote innovation.

Of course it is. That's how innovation happens. They are focused on overcoming a constraint of the system they operate within. In this case, it will be to get around the limitations of the private IPv4 network, or to make the upcoming IPv6 network easier and more appealing to use.

Most innovations are to overcome some sort of limitation, whether that is with a man-made system or just the laws of nature as we currently understand them. Unbounded innovation hardly ever occurs and usually results in some shitty mobile game.

Now that's not to say MIT IS&T isn't behaving extraordinarily shitty here. But this won't stifle innovation, just refocus it. Whether that's towards a more worthy goal is certainly up for debate.

imjustapie · 8 years ago
It still makes no sense that forcing researchers and students at MIT to access the Internet through a NAT has anything to do with innovation in IPv6, though, unless you count all the innovative ways students are going to come up with getting around the IPv4 NAT... which is a pretty pointless exercise.
imjustapie commented on By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation   blog.achernya.com/2017/06... · Posted by u/catherinezng
dheera · 8 years ago
"Rolled out" is different from "forced to use".

If I come up with a super-awesome computer vision algorithm and want to run a server in my dorm room to demo it, being forced to use IPv6-only when the school has enough IPv4 addresses is a stupid annoyance and will only reduce the number of people that can reach the website. Running on AWS or other IaaS service isn't an option for many students without much cash.

imjustapie · 8 years ago
dheera really gets it! I can cruft decommissioned (but working) hardware from trash piles in loading docks; I cannot cruft AWS credit.
imjustapie commented on By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation   blog.achernya.com/2017/06... · Posted by u/catherinezng
lucb1e · 8 years ago
And hosting websites is? I don't see the average student doing that either.

I do, but then I also hosted hidden services, relays and exit nodes...

imjustapie · 8 years ago
Yes! An average student can learn to host their server very easily with public addresses, and that was how I got started.
imjustapie commented on By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation   blog.achernya.com/2017/06... · Posted by u/catherinezng
rspeer · 8 years ago
The post isn't objecting to the firewall, though.

I totally understand the need for a campus-wide firewall. The MIT network is a juicy target for botnets, and individual students are not good enough at running security on their own computers. The old approach to IP assignment was that you needed to get your IP approved and made routable by IS&T anyway, and if they detected botnet activity on your computer, they'd manually intervene and make it unroutable again. That sounds like a lot of work.

If computers end up with firewalled but publicly routable IPv6 addresses, that sounds perfect.

imjustapie · 8 years ago
Even in the old approach, you get publicly routable addresses over DHCP. The approval was for static addresses only, and was very fast, because you're literally on the same network as the DHCP addresses.

If they detect bad activity, they blacklist your MAC address so you can't connect. This is no different under the new scheme, and has nothing to do with NAT.

imjustapie commented on By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation   blog.achernya.com/2017/06... · Posted by u/catherinezng
unsignedint · 8 years ago
You don't need to run a Tor relay in order to run a hidden service. I have thrown in this idea as it's a dead simple (cheap/free, and you don't have to coordinate with anyone) to get your stuff publicly, let alone for experimental purpose.
imjustapie · 8 years ago
Sure, but I'm just pointing out an example where MIT students get to be actors as well as playwrights, whereas now one must follow the prescribed lines and mustn't be too naughty.
imjustapie commented on By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation   blog.achernya.com/2017/06... · Posted by u/catherinezng
Symbiote · 8 years ago
NAT is not an additional layer of security.

I run our servers on public IP addresses, behind a firewall. Troubleshooting and debugging is made much easier, and there's never any conflict with VPNs etc.

> It's likely that the only difference is that you'd also have to specify what ports you want exposed to the outside world

Port 80, please. With NAT, you can't offer that to more than one computer.

imjustapie · 8 years ago
You nailed it! Students love that they can just spin up a whole new web server, no questions asked. I certainly won't be where I am on sysadmin-type skills without the kind of tinkering that the un-NAT'd network affords.
imjustapie commented on By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation   blog.achernya.com/2017/06... · Posted by u/catherinezng
new299 · 8 years ago
Would the logic not be that the money will be spent on more useful things for students?
imjustapie · 8 years ago
Perhaps. I haven't seen public discussion on the plans to use the fund though, other than vague promise that it will be used on Internet things.
imjustapie commented on By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation   blog.achernya.com/2017/06... · Posted by u/catherinezng
unsignedint · 8 years ago
Perhaps doing it over .onion?

Actually I have been experimenting this for my pet projects. Downside is that it's relatively slow but getting "global" address is click (well a few lines of config) away...

imjustapie · 8 years ago
But that would just be ridiculous, considering that experimenting with Tor relays is like a favorite student passtime...

u/imjustapie

KarmaCake day145April 19, 2017View Original