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iamkroot commented on Why do we salt the ice when making ice cream?   timothyrice.org/icecreams... · Posted by u/timrice
nkurz · 3 years ago
Remember, we're trying to freeze the ice cream (not just cool it down), which is proportionally just as thermodynamically expensive as melting ice.

Is it just proportional, or is it actually pretty close to 1:1? That is, how accurate is the view that if you want to freeze 1L (or kg) of ice cream you need to melt 1L (or kg) of ice? Although I guess ice cream is not just frozen water, so perhaps that forms a fixed proportion. Alternatively stated, how much ice do you need to start with to freeze a given quantify of ice cream?

iamkroot · 3 years ago
You're right, I should have said equivalently :D
iamkroot commented on Why do we salt the ice when making ice cream?   timothyrice.org/icecreams... · Posted by u/timrice
Taniwha · 3 years ago
That's true of the surface of the ice, but the core is colder
iamkroot · 3 years ago
For a little while, yes. Ice has middling thermal conductivity, it'll eventually homogenously warm to the melting point.
timrice commented on Why do we salt the ice when making ice cream?   timothyrice.org/icecreams... · Posted by u/timrice
foobarian · 3 years ago
This was a bit hard to spot in the writeup, as I have no clue about how ice cream making and machines work. Otherwise we could just use ice, which will be as cold as the refrigerator can get it. (I doubt the endothermic reaction of dissolving the salt contributes very much to the cooling).

Now that I think about it, if I were doing this I would use antifreeze for the coolant instead of wasting salt. Bonus, I can store the antifreeze when done, but the salt water is wasted unless I'm going to use it to make some kind of soup or similar.

timrice · 3 years ago
Author here

Surface contact is one reason you want an ice/water slurry instead of just ice, but the real reason is that ice melting consume a lot more energy than just ice being warmed up to it's melting point.

The ice will quickly come up to it's melting (equilibrium!) point, without cooling the ice cream mixture very much. Remember, we're trying to freeze the ice cream (not just cool it down), which is proportionally just as thermodynamically expensive as melting ice. Bringing the ice up to it's melting point alone won't suck enough heat out of the ice cream mixture to freeze it.

iamkroot commented on Why do we salt the ice when making ice cream?   timothyrice.org/icecreams... · Posted by u/timrice
Taniwha · 3 years ago
Surely part of the issue is that the ice at < 0C while the liquid portion is at 0C (because of the equilibrium thing) - but it's the liquid portion, not the ice, that's most physically connected to the inner container you're trying to freeze (this is the important point).

If you add ice you reduce the equilibrium temp and as a result the < 0C ice temp can be passed to the liquid phase and as a result on to the inner con tain er where you're making the ice cream

iamkroot · 3 years ago
The ice actually comes up to the temperature of the water while it's melting. That's what the equilibrium temperature is: the temperature of the entire ice / water system until it's been converted to all liquid or all solid.

Naturally there's some small local variations, but if you let the system come up to steady state, that's what will occur.

iamkroot commented on Why do we salt the ice when making ice cream?   timothyrice.org/icecreams... · Posted by u/timrice
majikandy · 3 years ago
More importantly, how was the ice cream you made? Apparently liquid nitrogen ice cream makes smaller crystals or something and tastes better? That could be the sequel…
iamkroot · 3 years ago
Delicious, of course!

And yes, the other commenter is correct. LNO2 works so well because it freezes the ice cream so fast that the crystals don't have time to grow very large, which produces a nice and smooth texture in the final product.

iamkroot commented on Why do we salt the ice when making ice cream?   timothyrice.org/icecreams... · Posted by u/timrice
majikandy · 3 years ago
A bit of alcohol would achieve that too right? Eg rum&raisin ice cream
iamkroot · 3 years ago
OP author here.

Yes, though you have to be careful. If you add too much alcohol you'll prevent your mixture from properly freezing.

David Leibowitz, author of "The Perfect Scoop" recommends no more than 45ml of 80 proof liquor per 1 liter of ice cream mixture.

iamkroot commented on Why do we salt the ice when making ice cream?   timothyrice.org/icecreams... · Posted by u/timrice
lend000 · 3 years ago
> It turns out, yes! What happens is that when the salt is added some of the ice melts – pulling heat from the system – until the temperature has reached the new, lower equilibrium point.

Correction, or addendum here: the actual dissolution of the salt is an endothermic process, so even if there was no ice, the temperature of water decreases when salt is dissolved.

iamkroot · 3 years ago
Author here.

Hah, that's true, but I didn't want to mention it as it's not entirely in the aim of the essay :)

timrice commented on Why do we salt the ice when making ice cream?   timothyrice.org/icecreams... · Posted by u/timrice
majikandy · 3 years ago
Always heard about this but never tried it. Sounds like fun. Great description, very clear and much better than just saying it lowers the temperature! Nice writing.
timrice · 3 years ago
Author here, thank you!

It's been bouncing around in the back of my brain for a long time.

I couldn't find any clear and concise explanations about what really happens when salt is added to ice, so I did some research and wrote it out myself :D

u/iamkroot

KarmaCake day462December 26, 2018
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