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hardwaresofton commented on I'm too dumb for Zig's new IO interface   openmymind.net/Im-Too-Dum... · Posted by u/begoon
chrisandchris · 11 hours ago
Contributions to the Zig language or contributions to software using Zig (the latter is the one the post is about as I understand)?

If so, I believe Zig will stay within a niche. Lower entry barriers allow "script kiddies" to easily start withe language, and they eventually will become leading engineers. Only a few people tend to go straight for the highest practice without "playing around". IMHO the reason, why PHP got so popular (it was not good back then, just very very easy to start with).

hardwaresofton · 10 hours ago
> Contributions to the Zig language or contributions to software using Zig (the latter is the one the post is about as I understand)?

Yes.

I think a contributor that really wanted to help the ecosystem would start in the stdlib and then start moving outwards. Even if it was LLM-assisted, I think it could be high value.

IIRC Loris already has an engine for building websites with Zig, but making sure that every Zig library has docs (similar to rustdocs) might be a great start. It is incredibly useful to have a resource like rustdocs, both the tooling and the web sites that are easily browsable.

Again, maybe everyone in the Zig ecosystem just has amazing editor setups and massive brains, but I personally really like the ease of browsing rustdoc.

> If so, I believe Zig will stay within a niche. Lower entry barriers allow "script kiddies" to easily start withe language, and they eventually will become leading engineers. Only a few people tend to go straight for the highest practice without "playing around". IMHO the reason, why PHP got so popular (it was not good back then, just very very easy to start with).

I agree, but I'd add that the niche they're aiming for is systems programming, so they're probably fine :). The average hacker there is expecting C/C++ or to be near the metal, and I think Zig is a great fit there. They're likely not going to convince people who write Ruby, but it feels reasonable for C hackers.

Also I want to just be clear that I think Zig has a lot of motivating factors! They're doing amazing things like zig cc, unbelievably easy, "can't believe it's not butter" cross-compilation, their new explicit/managed I/O mechanism, explicit allocators as a default, comptime, better type ergonomics. It's a pretty impressive language.

hardwaresofton commented on I'm too dumb for Zig's new IO interface   openmymind.net/Im-Too-Dum... · Posted by u/begoon
ksec · 11 hours ago
I think it is a trade off for between zig's development speed and documentation. It is Pre 1.0, extreme beta mode with lots of breaking changes.

Generally speaking I think it is the right trade off for now. Purely inferring from Andrew and the Zig's team online character as I don't know them in person, I think they do care a lot of DX, things like compiling speed and tools. So I think once 1.0 come I won't be surprised if it will have extremely good documentation as well.

And I would argue, writing good, simple, clear, detailed documentation is actually harder than writing code itself.

hardwaresofton · 10 hours ago
On the one hand, I totally get that pre 1.0 is the wild west (somewhat) and should be. The team is right in jealously guarding their ability to make changes.

That said, others have pointed out that writing documentation and tests helps improve quality quite a bit, and in this case it would also increase usability. I think I'd agree with this stance, but there is no way I could make the statement that even most of the code I've written for public consumption had excellent documentation or examples. So I've got no leg to stand on there, just the armchair.

> And I would argue, writing good, simple, clear, detailed documentation is actually harder than writing code itself.

All the more reason why it must be done! A little silly but from my armchair maybe it's one of those "start with the interface you want and work backwards", but the problem is that approach can be at odds with mechanical sympathy and we know which side Zig lands on (and arguably should land on based on it's values).

hardwaresofton commented on I'm too dumb for Zig's new IO interface   openmymind.net/Im-Too-Dum... · Posted by u/begoon
jakobnissen · 11 hours ago
There is a cost to writing documentation - it takes time, which could be used to improve Zig in other areas. For code that is work-in-progress, it can make sense to not document until things are more settled.

Of course documentation is good. But if you have to prioritize either a new feature, or a critical bugfix, or documentation, you often can't have it all

hardwaresofton · 11 hours ago
This is a good point, but one could make a point for the usefulness of documentation in “thinking like a user” which is a valuable exercise.

I do very much prefer moving fast though, so I get it, docs-later is obviously a very valid way of doing things.

If someone is excited about Zig and wanted to make a difference I guess it’s now obvious where they could have outsized impact!

hardwaresofton commented on I'm too dumb for Zig's new IO interface   openmymind.net/Im-Too-Dum... · Posted by u/begoon
brabel · 12 hours ago
You’re not familiar with Zig’s culture, I guess. Complain about the lack of documentation and be prepared for the flood of “just read the stdlib code” helpful comments by pretty much everyone who writes Zig right now. Because most APIs are just as hard to use as in this post (check things like HTTP and even basic file system operations) only the strongest survive.
hardwaresofton · 11 hours ago
Yeah, thinking about this attitude positively, maybe it’s a feature — if only hard core people can comfortably figure it out, you get higher quality contributions?

Not trying to imply that’s an explicit goal (probably instead just a resource problem), but an observation

hardwaresofton commented on I'm too dumb for Zig's new IO interface   openmymind.net/Im-Too-Dum... · Posted by u/begoon
hardwaresofton · 12 hours ago
I'm not a Zig PM but the first obvious fix for the issues the OP wrote about is to write better documentation, including usage examples (the more the better, almost to a fault). Also doubles as a good time to reflect on whether the user is having to do too much.

If the tradeoff was absolute performance/avoiding introducing load-bearing performance-lowering abstraction I think that goal was achieved, but DX may have gone out the window.

hardwaresofton commented on Advice for Tech Non-Profits   mitchellh.com/writing/adv... · Posted by u/ksec
motoxpro · 3 days ago
They exist already.

The more basic solution is for the non-profit to just add the info. Grab a squarespace template and just type in the info.

If anything, someone should just make an AI that sucks in all the things she mentioned and add it to the NPO's pages. As she mentioned, most NPO work is just marketing and fundraising, and hopefully a little bit of doing some of the work you started it for.

hardwaresofton · 2 days ago
Yeah sounds like those SaaSes have a broken funnel/aren't doing a good job, because customers are still annoyed. Being second to market doesn't mean you can't be best!

> If anything, someone should just make an AI that sucks in all the things she mentioned and add it to the NPO's pages. As she mentioned, most NPO work is just marketing and fundraising, and hopefully a little bit of doing some of the work you started it for.

Mitchell is definitely a he, but yeah it sounds like most people don't want to do the marketing and fundraising, and I don't think AI is ready to take that on quite yet.

He notes specifically about how interacting with humans is a valuable part of the experience, sounds like they need better automated management/coralling of existing resources, not necessarily AI.

hardwaresofton commented on Advice for Tech Non-Profits   mitchellh.com/writing/adv... · Posted by u/ksec
hardwaresofton · 3 days ago
Sounds like a SaaS offering waiting to be built
hardwaresofton commented on Without the futex, it's futile   h4x0r.org/futex/... · Posted by u/eatonphil
gpderetta · 3 days ago
cppreference [1] has also entries for the C standard library. POSIX/SuS is directly available from opengroup [2]. glibc is better browsed from local man pages, or for a more organic discussion, info pages. Searching 'man function-name' also usually works.

[1] https://en.cppreference.com/w/c.html

[2] https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799.2018edition...

hardwaresofton · 3 days ago
Thanks! Yeah CPP reference is what I tend to find on the internet, but quite surprised there isn't something a bit more "modern" that combines all these.

Searching also revealed some good university guides, the standards, ETC -- just very surprising that people doing day to day work with C are fine with that tooling-wise, though of course people have jump-to-definition so maybe reading header files is "good enough".

hardwaresofton commented on Without the futex, it's futile   h4x0r.org/futex/... · Posted by u/eatonphil
hardwaresofton · 3 days ago
Where does everyone browse the C standard library, posix library, and separately glibc?

Is there any really nice listing/walk through these standard libraries/rustdoc like website?

Does everyone just dig through header files and man pages all day?

hardwaresofton commented on Medical cannabis patient data exposed by unsecured database   wired.com/story/highly-se... · Posted by u/hacker_yacker
hobs · 4 days ago
Because they want you to click one more time to the other article that names it. https://www.websiteplanet.com/news/ohio-medical-alliance-bre...
hardwaresofton · 4 days ago
I did click that -- it didn't have it listed either...

I think I wasn't clear, I wanted to know which database system people were using (i.e. Postgres, Mongo, etc). You can't even run Postgres in a container without a password these days, how could someone do a whole production deployment without a password.

u/hardwaresofton

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