fullmoon (u/fullmoon)

fullmoon commented on Good Riddance, 4o mahadk.com/posts/4o... · Posted by u/JustSkyfall

kelseyfrog · a month ago

It really does give a lot of signal[1] to people in the dating scene: validate and enthusiastically respond to potential romantic partners and the world is your oyster.

1. possibly/probably not in a good or healthy way? idk

fullmoon · a month ago

Enthusiastically matching the energy of an anxiously attached partner is a rite of passage many would rather not have walked.

fullmoon commented on Good Riddance, 4o mahadk.com/posts/4o... · Posted by u/JustSkyfall

tptacek · a month ago

Begs the question of whether the underlying pathology is attachment trauma or some other delusional fixation! I don't doubt most of the people in this predicament are vulnerable for one reason or another. I made a much more specific claim, about delusional obsessive fixation; I did not claim that their underlying mental health issues could be fixed straightforwardly.

fullmoon · a month ago

It’s a great question, and I think it’s not exclusive.

Obsessive limerent obsession can be driven by reward circuits, and those _can_ be extinquished by more straight-forward therapy, but if it’s driven by unmet emotional needs, it’s often quickly replaced by some other maladaptive coping mechanism (hopefully slightly less unhealthy).

fullmoon commented on Good Riddance, 4o mahadk.com/posts/4o... · Posted by u/JustSkyfall

tptacek · a month ago

I don't think reinforcement is generally the recommended approach for people with delusional or obsessive pathological parasocial fixations. I think generally the idea is to get those people into talk therapy and to cut off all contact with the object of their fixation.

fullmoon · a month ago

Mere talk therapy is infamously useless for attachment trauma, which is relational and somatic

fullmoon commented on Good Riddance, 4o mahadk.com/posts/4o... · Posted by u/JustSkyfall

landl0rd · a month ago

One of the defining features of many such people, by nature or disposition or practice, is they are not easily able to offer in return the meeting of the same needs in another person. At least, not in a way that's easy to understand. People do not gravitate to what is or seems to be one-sided. It seems they are still wired to want a certain level of attention, though, so it's not as though we can just pair them off and expect it to work. What they want and what they can give are not in balance.

Counseling can help with this to some degree and everyone can make some amount of progress. The question is what we do with those whose "ceiling" remains lower than is tenable for most relationships. For those, there is not a better solution than robots.

However, the always-available, always-validating robot is not a valid psychological need. It is a supernormal emotional stimulus. It is not healthy and, like other supernormal stimuli, builds invariably tolerance, desensitization, and dependence. Fast cycling of discontent -> open app -> validation is a huge contributor, the same way that the constant availability and instant nature of vaping make it incredibly addictive.

fullmoon · a month ago

People with severely disordered attachment _will_ seek out humans, again and again, to fill those unfulfillable needs, and leave bodies and psyches in their wake.

So I think there is a case to be made for harm reduction.

fullmoon commented on Good Riddance, 4o mahadk.com/posts/4o... · Posted by u/JustSkyfall

rektomatic · a month ago

this is so so sad on many levels

fullmoon · a month ago

I agree, but not because I think that those users had stable attachment patterns and have been corrupted by an unscrupulous company, but because there is unacknowledged, often hidden, but severe pain in a large % of the population.

fullmoon commented on Good Riddance, 4o mahadk.com/posts/4o... · Posted by u/JustSkyfall

fullmoon · a month ago

Which is your own reaction, which is a result of your own wounds.

Now imagine someone else coming to the same conclusion about you.

fullmoon commented on Good Riddance, 4o mahadk.com/posts/4o... · Posted by u/JustSkyfall

nlh · a month ago

I dunno.

I've been reading a lot of "screw 'em" comments re: the deprecation of 4o and I agree there's some serious cases of AI psychosis going on with the people who are hooked, but damn this is pretty cold - these are humans with real feelings and real emotions here. Someone on X put it well (I'm paraphrasing):

OpenAI gave these people an unregulated experimental psychiatric drug in the form of an AI companion, they got people absolutely hooked (for better or for worse), and now OpenAI is taking it away. That's going to cause some distress.

We should all have some empathy for the (very real) pain this is causing, whether it's due to psychosis or otherwise.

fullmoon · a month ago

I’m not sure “AI psychosis” is even right for many of those users who formed attachments to their “companions”.

Psychosis is a real risk for schizophrenia spectrum disorders, but a lot of those relationships look to be rooted in disordered attachment.

fullmoon commented on A Timeline of the OpenAI Board loeber.substack.com/p/a-t... · Posted by u/prawn

upwardbound · 2 years ago

> they asked: who on earth are Tasha McCauley and Helen Toner?

As a prominent researcher in AI safety (I discovered prompt injection) I should explain that Helen Toner is a big name in the AI safety community - she’s one of the top 20 most respected people in our community, like Rohin Shah.

The “who on earth” question is a good question about Tasha. But grouping Helen in with Tasha is just sexist. By analogy, Tasha is like Kimbal Musk, whereas Helen is like Tom Mueller.

Tasha seems unqualified but Helen is extremely qualified. Grouping them together is sexist and wrong.

fullmoon · 2 years ago

Where, pray, is the sexism?

This seems to be an instance of “if you hear the dog whistle you’re the dog”

fullmoon commented on Covid's damage lingers in the heart magazine.hms.harvard.edu/... · Posted by u/belltaco

garganzol · 2 years ago

One should pay attention to the following symptoms: tingling/burning sensations especially in limbs, complexities with swallowing (dysphagia), chronic fatigue, shortness of breath with >= 96% SpO2, uncontrolled muscle cramps, panic attacks, agoraphobia, persistent tinnitus, appearance of dark dots in the field of vision, problems with regulation of body temperature (persistent hypo- or hyperthermia), persistent distortion/loss of smell/taste.

Post-covid is mostly physiological. Sure, it may cause some cognitive and psychological manifestations as well (asthenia, depression, derealization), but without treating the underlying physiology there is no way out.

fullmoon · 2 years ago

You’ve inadvertently listed many symptoms associated with anxiety and panic disorder.

fullmoon commented on Do You Need a Visit to the Confident Man Ranch? gq.com/story/confident-ma... · Posted by u/Tomte

mnky9800n · 2 years ago

Why do people pretend to do therapy to make money? If you can simply open a dude ranch and let people talk in a group during afternoon coffee break, why is that considered legitimate therapy? What's the difference between some dude with a dude ranch and a bachelor's in engineering and organizational psychology calling himself a life coach and someone with a PhD in clinical psychology who put time and energy into studying the science and getting vetted? Why is the spectrum so wide? Can I not simply start being a life coach ala Jeremy in Peep show, fuck with people's lives for 100£ an hour, then take the alcoholics anonymous cop out that the program works if you work it blaming you for any and all problems or difficulties you have along the way? If men need to go to some kind of dude ranch experience to connect with something that's fine I guess. Im not really talking about the men who seek these experiences. Moreso the ones who offer them.

fullmoon · 2 years ago

If all you need is someone to talk with, there is no difference.