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fnovd commented on Who invented the alphabet?   asor.org/anetoday/2023/08... · Posted by u/diodorus
meepmorp · 2 years ago
The Greeks. They're the first known group to explicitly represent vowels, unlike the older Egyptian derived systems which only represented consonants and thus were abjads rather than alphabets.
fnovd · 2 years ago
The Japanese. They're the first known group to explicitly represent Emoji, unlike the older Latin derived systems which could only represent emotion through character combinations and thus were lame rather than complete.
fnovd commented on When CEOs Are Paid for Bad Performance (2005)   gsb.stanford.edu/insights... · Posted by u/segasaturn
kibwen · 2 years ago
"Only" for a day; Jeff Bezos makes $8 million per hour. $150 thousand per minute.

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-m...

fnovd · 2 years ago
>We calculated the Amazon CEO's annual earnings by finding the difference between his 2017 and 2018 net worths
fnovd commented on The age of the grift shift   tante.cc/2023/09/21/the-a... · Posted by u/jrepinc
15457345234 · 2 years ago
> The sales team that "inserts themselves between" your problem and the solution

That's just an incredibly jaded way to look at things. The solution is developed by people who specialize in developing solutions. The communication of the existence of the solution to people who need it is handled by people who specialize in communication and customer outreach, i.e. sales.

You may think that without a sales team the solution would be cheaper; the reality is that without a sales team the solution would either not exist or be substantially less refined as _someone_ has to handle the customer interactions, and if that's the dev than that's taking them away from working on the product.

fnovd · 2 years ago
I don't think it's jaded at all. I don't disagree that a sales team is necessary, either. I'm just describing how a business works: it creates a solution and then finds a way to extract value by selling the solution to those for whom value would be created. Creating something and extracting value from it require different skillsets; that's all fine and good.

We view a business as problematic when it's only inserting itself between you and the solution, without actually creating the solution, i.e. rent-seeking. So, it's the relationship between the business and the solution that causes an issue, not the action of putting the business between the solution and the problem. The latter is a given, always.

fnovd commented on The age of the grift shift   tante.cc/2023/09/21/the-a... · Posted by u/jrepinc
JohnFen · 2 years ago
I don't think I was nitpicking at all. "inserting themselves between" two things is very, very different than providing a solution to a problem.

> Good businesses create a solution to your problem and then "insert themselves" between you and that solution.

I cannot wrap my head around this framing at all. Businesses that provide a solution aren't inserting themselves between anything. They're offering a solution directly.

fnovd · 2 years ago
Think about any software company with a large sales team. The people writing the software are not the people selling the software. Writing software and offering it to people does not sustain a business. Creating IP and then finding creative ways to charge people for it does. The sales team that "inserts themselves between" your problem and the solution the product team has created is a core part of the business, a sine qua non.
fnovd commented on The age of the grift shift   tante.cc/2023/09/21/the-a... · Posted by u/jrepinc
isoprophlex · 2 years ago
Growth is such a weird idea. We're collectively hypnotized by the "line go up" phenomenon.

In biology you'd call that a cancer; in predator-prey dynamics it's the thing that happens at breakneck speed before the inevitable crash. It's so dumb. But talk about degrowth or alternative economic models and you've suddenly conversationally untouchable.

fnovd · 2 years ago
The pursuit of growth is the foundation of all life as we know it. Every species (but not necessarily every individual) will seek to produce offspring and grow their "genetic footprint" so to speak. It's a baseline requirement for the continuity of existence. It is not a "weird" idea and we are not "hypnotized" but rather aware of of the fundamental necessity of growth.

Sustainability is a behavior only learned when absolutely necessary, when the constraints of material existence impose themselves on the living. Growth will always happen outside of these constraints.

That is to say, some behaviors will reduce growth now in exchange for stability (i.e. more growth later, or less growth loss later), but those are hard-won and they are not the default. The default is always growth up to capacity, and we don't actually know what that capacity is.

Malthusians have been dooming for centuries. We can accept that at some future point, they might be right, but it is always wrong to assume they are inevitably correct at the present moment. Growth can and will be pursued until it is no longer an option. It's not weird, it's not a fixation, it's not a hypnosis. It's just life.

fnovd commented on The age of the grift shift   tante.cc/2023/09/21/the-a... · Posted by u/jrepinc
JohnFen · 2 years ago
> to make money it helps to insert yourself between people and something they may want or need. this is how pretty much every business works.

That's how bad businesses work. Good businesses provide a solution to a real problem, instead.

fnovd · 2 years ago
I'm not sure what your nitpick is supposed to be getting at. Good businesses create a solution to your problem and then "insert themselves" between you and that solution. That's how they make money. If they could not stand in the middle and charge you for access, there would be no incentive to create the solution.
fnovd commented on The Relativity of Wrong (1989)   hermiene.net/essays-trans... · Posted by u/tate
ndsipa_pomu · 2 years ago
I think you're mistaking the map for the territory. A googolplex is a representation of a number, but not the number itself, although it's simple enough that we can get away with using the representation as it's obvious what the form of the number would be. However a number such as tree(3) is unimaginably bigger, but more crucially, we don't know anything about the form of the number beyond its size and we can't sensibly use it in calculations.

Now both of those numbers are finite and we could try to figure out how many numbers we could "describe" such as tree(3), but that would be limited by the number of symbols (i.e numbers, operators, letters and words) that could be used (i.e we would have less than a googolplex different numbers that could be represented using maths, language and thought). That's still going to be a finite number.

fnovd · 2 years ago
If the Universe is the territory than Knowledge is the map. I'm not at all mistaking the map for the territory: I'm pointing out that the set of maps that can describe a given territory are virtually infinite. Asimov is saying the map is almost complete and I'm saying there are an infinite number of maps left to go.

Cartographers in the 18th centuries were "basically done" mapping out the Earth. In the 20th century we were able to use satellite imagery to get the "full picture". Does that mean we have perfect knowledge of the Earth? Absolutely not. There is never a final frontier of knowledge.

fnovd commented on The Relativity of Wrong (1989)   hermiene.net/essays-trans... · Posted by u/tate
cnity · 2 years ago
One way to see Asimov's "infinity of wrongness" is perhaps as a fractal. You could view the bulbs in the mandelbrot as being a kind of knowledge, and the "main bulb" occupying the majority of the area belonging to the set as the set of truths known about our universe. The mandelbrot set is infinite in complexity, however its area is finite and bounded!

Or as ironing out the wrinkles on a great big t-shirt, where each wrinkle is sub-wrinkled with smaller wrinkles and so on. We've "ironed out" the biggest wrinkles, there are infinitely more but they are much smaller. We're perhaps over half-way ironed, in a quantitative sense.

fnovd · 2 years ago
I disagree fundamentally. You may as well ask me to imagine Earth as a disc, with multiple rotating spotlights shining down on it and a giant ice wall around the edges. I understand what the image is trying to convey, I simply do not agree that this is the shape of the thing I experience.
fnovd commented on The Relativity of Wrong (1989)   hermiene.net/essays-trans... · Posted by u/tate
ndsipa_pomu · 2 years ago
There aren't an infinite number of chess positions, moves or even games, so that's not a good example. It's possible to come up with a number game that could have infinite possibilities, but that doesn't mean that the universe could even contain some of the options within our visibility. Our current state of knowledge about the universe strongly suggests that there's a finite limit to the available knowledge (I.e. between the Planck scale and the visible horizon due to the speed of light).

A googolplex looks to be the first number we've found that is too big to be contained in our universe.

fnovd · 2 years ago
You're right--chess is a decidedly finite game. Even so, we have not "solved" this simple, finite game--not even close! If we're not close to solving such a trivial game, how can we be close to the limit of the knowledge of the universe?

A googolplex is "too big to be contained" in our universe yet here we are talking about it. We can perform operations on this number, compare it to other numbers, and even come up with mathematical proofs showing that it's too big to exist. There are an infinite amount of numbers larger than a googolplex and we could have an infinite amount of conversations about them. The material limit of the universe does not limit our ability to create information, to learn things.

There isn't enough space in the universe for an infinite series, either, yet we can (and do) still use them, we reason about them, we learn from them. We can even reduce some infinite series to a finite number. The material bounds of the universe are not a limit of knowledge.

fnovd commented on The Relativity of Wrong (1989)   hermiene.net/essays-trans... · Posted by u/tate
ndsipa_pomu · 2 years ago
> There is no contradiction because there is no limit of knowledge.

I don't think we know enough to be able to state that definitively. It's feasible that the universe behaves mathematically (it seems to so far) and thus possible to gain a thorough understanding of the underlying principles, if not the specific facts (c.f. with understanding how to produce integers yet not "knowing" all the integers).

Even if the universe doesn't have underlying rules to be discovered, there's still a limit to number of configurations available to particles etc. within our visible universe. Although that number might appear to be infinite to us, it's actually drastically closer to zero than to infinity.

So, if there is indeed some finite limit, then using y = e^x would be the wrong function as that doesn't approach a finite value.

fnovd · 2 years ago
This leads to a more fundamental question: What is the universe?

Is the optimal move in an a given chess board considered knowledge? If so, can't we create entirely new sets of knowledge from the emergent properties of an arbitrary set of rules called a "game"? If we can create an infinite set of arbitrary combinations of rules and states (games), then knowledge should be infinite. Maybe not all knowledge is scientifically applicable, but we have learned a great deal about science and engineering from studying chess. In fact, we are starting to learn more about learning as a process and not as some magical thing that human beings can do, just from studying the best way to make decisions in this totally-contrived and scientifically-useless game.

Taking this a step further, let's look at the animal kingdom. If learning about the intricacies of the mating habits of birds can help an arbitrary bird increase its impact on the future gene pool, is that knowledge not worth something to the bird? To bird society? Are the things we learn about ourselves knowledge? They certainly have utility. Is there any limit to what we can learn about ourselves, about the stochastic process of life? Is life not part of the universe?

Is computer science even knowledge? It seems if we're more directly concerned with the physical nature of the universe, we ought not to care about what the system of a computer actually does; we only need to care about what it is, about its physical structure. Except, that's not actually how we pursue knowledge or science at all.

In my view, Asimov's sentiment can be reduced to a complete tautology: we're at the point where we know almost everything there is to know about the things we think we can know.

u/fnovd

KarmaCake day975December 11, 2015View Original