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eschaton commented on AI tooling must be disclosed for contributions   github.com/ghostty-org/gh... · Posted by u/freetonik
Aeolun · 2 days ago
That's nonsense. It's like feeling you need to disclose that your IDE has autocomplete. Nobody discloses that, since it's ridiculous. You only disclose that you used Claude Code if you are not certain of the result (e.g. you think it is correct, but the maintainer might be a better judge).

If it's exactly the same as what you'd have written manually, and you are confident it works, then what's the point of disclosure?

eschaton · a day ago
It’s completely different from an IDE’s autocomplete because autocomplete in an IDE is only helping you type identifiers that already exist in your codebase or in any SDKs you’re using.

An LLM is regurgitating things from outside that space, where you have no idea of the provenance of what it’s putting into your code.

It doesn’t just matter that the code you’re contributing to a project is correct, it matters quite a lot if it’s actually something you’re allowed to contribute.

- You can’t contribute code that your employer owns to a project if they don’t want you to. - You can’t contribute code under a license that the project doesn’t want you to use. - And you can’t contribute code written by someone else and claim it’s your intellectual property without some sort of contract in place to grant that.

If you use an LLM to generate code that you’re contributing, you have both of the latter two problems. And all of those apply *even if* the code you’re contributing is identical to what you’d have written by hand off the top of your head.

When you contribute to a project, you’re not just sending that project a set of bits, you’re making attestations about how those bits were created.

Why does this seem so difficult for some supposed tech professionals to understand? The entire industry is intellectual property, and this is basic “IP 101” stuff.

eschaton commented on AI tooling must be disclosed for contributions   github.com/ghostty-org/gh... · Posted by u/freetonik
fluidcruft · 2 days ago
How does an "I didn't use AI" pledge provide any assurance/provenance that submitted code wasn't copied from an AGPLv3 reference?
eschaton · 2 days ago
It doesn’t, it provides an assurance (but not provenance) you didn’t use AI.

Assuring you didn’t include any AGPLv3 code in your contribution is exactly the same kind of assurance. It also doesn’t provide any provenance.

Conflating assurance with provenance is bogus because the former is about making a representation that, if false, exposes the person making it to liability. For most situations that’s sufficient that provenance isn’t needed.

eschaton commented on AI tooling must be disclosed for contributions   github.com/ghostty-org/gh... · Posted by u/freetonik
koolba · 2 days ago
I’m not equating any type of code generation. I’m saying that as a maintainer you have to evaluate any submission on the merits, not on a series of yes/no questions provided by the submitter. And your own judgement is influenced by what you know about the submitter.
eschaton · 2 days ago
And I’m saying, as a maintainer, you have to and are doing both, even if you don’t think you are.

For example, you either make your contributors attest that their changes are original or that they have the right to contribute their changes—or you assume this of them and consider it implicit in their submission.

What you (probably) don’t do is welcome contributions that the contributors do not have the right to make.

eschaton commented on AI tooling must be disclosed for contributions   github.com/ghostty-org/gh... · Posted by u/freetonik
bigyabai · 2 days ago
Most licensed software is unsettled law, if we're being that pedantic.
eschaton · 2 days ago
Not really, no. If you’re specifically referring to, say, GPL or BSD or other Open Source licenses, it’s a bit more unsettled, but software licensing as a whole has several decades of case law at this point.
eschaton commented on Why are there so many rationalist cults?   asteriskmag.com/issues/11... · Posted by u/glenstein
elliotto · 11 days ago
I'm interested in this perspective, I haven't come across much criticism of Wolfram but I haven't really looked for it much either. Is it because of his theory of everything ruliad stuff?

I really enjoy his blog posts and his work on automata seems to be well respected. I've felt he presents a solid epistemology.

eschaton · 2 days ago
He’s pretty widely regarded as a kook by real scientists. He did some good math and physics back in the day and then some good work on cellular automata, and assumed that meant he was smarter than everybody else and that all of science was in fact a subset of his special focus, which it’s pretty trivially not.

Furthermore he has a very long history of grossly misrepresenting his accomplishments, whether by claiming authorship of his employees’ accomplishments or denying he was ever exposed to work that he built upon.

For example, I believe it’s been proven now that he had substantial exposure to MACSYMA before he started to lead his employees in the development of Mathematica—but that didn’t stop him from claiming it was entirely original and even threatening others with patent and other IP infringement claims for trying to do things that were similar.

(Which is the other problem with him: He doesn’t just take credit for the work he pays others to do, he’s an “IP protection” maximalist.)

eschaton commented on AI tooling must be disclosed for contributions   github.com/ghostty-org/gh... · Posted by u/freetonik
macawfish · 2 days ago
I'd way sooner quit my job / not contribute than deal with someone who projects on me the way you have in this conversation.
eschaton · 2 days ago
Enjoy being found out for fraudulently passing off work you didn’t do as your own then.

Dead Comment

Dead Comment

eschaton commented on AI tooling must be disclosed for contributions   github.com/ghostty-org/gh... · Posted by u/freetonik
ineedasername · 2 days ago
Courts (at least in the US) have already ruled that use of ingested data for training is transformative. There’s lots of details to figure, but the genie is out of the bottle.

Sure it’s a big hill to climb in rethinking IP laws to align with a societal desire that generating IP continue to be a viable economic work product, but that is what’s necessary.

eschaton · 2 days ago
Some courts at some levels. It’s by no means settled law.
eschaton commented on AI tooling must be disclosed for contributions   github.com/ghostty-org/gh... · Posted by u/freetonik
KritVutGu · 2 days ago
> As a project maintainer, you shouldn't make rules unenforceable rules

Total bullshit. It's totally fine to declare intent.

You are already incapable of verifying / enforcing that a contributor is legally permitted to submit a piece of code as their own creation (Signed-off-by), and do so under the project's license. You won't embark on looking for prior art, for the "actual origin" of the code, whatever. You just make them promise, and then take their word for it.

eschaton · 2 days ago
And if they’re discovered to not be keeping their word, there can be consequences imposed and mitigating actions taken. Rules can’t prevent bad actions 100% of the time, but they can substantially increase the risk of bad actions.

u/eschaton

KarmaCake day1821July 3, 2010View Original