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eigenspace commented on The air is hissing out of the overinflated AI balloon   theregister.com/2025/08/2... · Posted by u/rntn
SkyPuncher · 3 days ago
As someone who worked in fast food in high school, I completely disagree with this.

Order taking via drive through can be surprisingly hard.

* Often lots of background noise

* Sometimes multiple people try to order (often with one of those being way away from the mic)

* People don't always know exactly what they want or what it's called. Sometimes things have a regional or local name that's not on the board. Right now, I order a "$5 meal deal at McDonals". This is often not listed on the board and it's not called "$5 meal deal" - but literally every cashier knows exactly what I'm talking about. I doubt AI would figure this out.

* People often have custom requests that don't follow the "official menu".

* The actual food ticketing system that gets sent to the grill has significant limitations in resolution. If you're doing anything other than a basic deletion, it's likely just coming through to the grill as "ask me".

* It's extremely hard to handle edge cases like makeup meals, incorrect orders, coupons, etc. These generally require human judgement and a bit of contextual understanding. Generally, these are things you only understand by actually looking at the real world. For example, is there an unaccounted burger now sitting at the end of the grill line - looks like someone grabbed the wrong food.

* Human cashiers are really good at hearing someone shoutout something like "ice cream machine is down" or "hold on fries" or "we're out of chicken" or "no fire sauce" and understanding what the means in terms of orders. It's a pain to get an AI system to be able to understand all of this nuance.

eigenspace · 3 days ago
Yes, this is a surprisingly difficult job that has a lot of complications. In fact, most jobs have surprising complications to them, and that surprising difficulty is why there's skepticism about AI taking over other jobs.
eigenspace commented on Who Invented Backpropagation?   people.idsia.ch/~juergen/... · Posted by u/nothrowaways
cs702 · 10 days ago
Whatever the facts, the OP comes across as sour grapes. The author, Jürgen Schmidhuber, believes Hopfield and Hinton did not deserve their Nobel Prize in Physics, and that Hinton, Bengio, and LeCun did not deserve their Turing Award. Evidently, many other scientists disagree, because both awards were granted in consultation with the scientific community. Schmidhuber's own work was, in fact, cited by the Nobel Prize committee as background information for the 2024 Nobel.[a] Only future generations of scientists, looking at the past more objectively, will be able to settle these disputes.

[a] https://www.nobelprize.org/uploads/2024/11/advanced-physicsp...

eigenspace · 10 days ago
For what it's worth, it's a very mainstream opinion in the physics community that Hinton did not at all deserve a nobel prize in physics for his work. But that's because his work, and wasnt impactful at all to the physics community
eigenspace commented on Who Invented Backpropagation?   people.idsia.ch/~juergen/... · Posted by u/nothrowaways
stephencanon · 10 days ago
I don't think most people think to do either direction by hand; it's all just matrix multiplication, you can multiply them in whatever order makes it easier.
eigenspace · 10 days ago
Im just talking about the general algorithm to write down the derivative of `f(g(h(x)))` using the chain rule.

For vector valued functions, the naive way you would learn in a vector calculus class corresponds to forward mode AD.

eigenspace commented on Who Invented Backpropagation?   people.idsia.ch/~juergen/... · Posted by u/nothrowaways
mystraline · 10 days ago
> BP's modern version (also called the reverse mode of automatic differentiation)

So... Automatic integration?

Proportional, integrative, derivative. A PID loop sure sounds like what they're talking about.

eigenspace · 10 days ago
Reverse move automatic differentiation is not integration. It's still differentiation, but just a different method of calculating the derivative than the one you'd think to do by hand. It basically just applies the chain rule in the opposite order from what is intuitive to people.

It has a lot more overhead than regular forwards mode autodiff because you need to cache values from running the function and refer back to them in reverse order, but the advantage is that for function with many many inputs and very few outputs (i.e. the classic example is calculating the gradient of a scalar function in a high dimensional space like for gradient descent), it is algorithmically more efficient and requires only one pass through the primal function.

On the other hand, traditional forwards mode derivatives are most efficient for functions with very few inputs, but many outputs. It's essentially a duality relationship.

eigenspace commented on Digital Foundry leaves IGN, now independent [video]   youtube.com/watch?v=tl7bI... · Posted by u/zdw
ekianjo · 18 days ago
so Independent that I need to sign up to read that post.
eigenspace · 17 days ago
Read what post? It's a link to a video...
eigenspace commented on The borrowchecker is what I like the least about Rust   viralinstruction.com/post... · Posted by u/jakobnissen
nine_k · a month ago
Maybe Rust, a systems language, is just a wrong tool for bioinformatic tasks. Go, Java, Typescript, Ocaml, Scala, Haskell easily offer a spectrum from extreme simplicity to extreme expressiveness, with good performance and library support, but without needing to care about memory allocation and deallocation. (Python, if you use it as the frontend to pandas / polars, also counts.)
eigenspace · a month ago
I know you're not supposed to berate people here for not reading TFA, but this really feels like a case where it's very frustrating to engage with you because you really should read TFA.
eigenspace commented on The borrowchecker is what I like the least about Rust   viralinstruction.com/post... · Posted by u/jakobnissen
roland35 · a month ago
I'm not sure.. without the borrow checker you could have a pretty nice language that is like a "pro" version of golang, with better typing, concise error handling syntax, and sum types. If you only use things like String and Arc objects, you basically can do this, but it'd be nice to make that not required!
eigenspace · a month ago
That's my whole point. Without the borrow checker it would have been a nice language, but I believe it would not have gotten popular, because being nice isnt enough to be popular in the current programming language landscape.
eigenspace commented on The borrowchecker is what I like the least about Rust   viralinstruction.com/post... · Posted by u/jakobnissen
nine_k · a month ago
One good RCE in production could alter this perception quite a bit. "The mosquito repellent is useless, I see too few mosquitos around me anyway."
eigenspace · a month ago
The author is a bioinformatician writing scientific software, and often switching back and forth between Rust, Julia, and Python. His concerns and priorities are not the same as people doing systems-level programming.
eigenspace commented on The borrowchecker is what I like the least about Rust   viralinstruction.com/post... · Posted by u/jakobnissen
IshKebab · a month ago
This post pretty much completely ignores the advantages of the borrow checker. I'm not talking about memory safety, which is it's original purpose. I'm talking about the fact that code that follows Rust's tree-style ownership pattern and doesn't excessively circumvent the borrow checker is more likely to be correct.

I don't think that was ever the intent behind the borrow checker but it is definitely an outcome.

So yes, the borrow checker makes some code more awkward than it would be in GC languages, but the benefits are easily worth it and they stretch far beyond memory safety.

eigenspace · a month ago
He's not ignoring them. The point of the article is that the author doesn't experience those things as concrete advantages for them. Like sure, there are advantages to those things, but the author says he doesn't feel it's worth the trouble in his experience for the sorts of code he's writing.
eigenspace commented on The borrowchecker is what I like the least about Rust   viralinstruction.com/post... · Posted by u/jakobnissen
eigenspace · a month ago
I don't use Rust much, but I agree with the thrust of the article. However, I do think that the borrowchecker is the only reason Rust actually caught on. In my opinion, it's really hard for a new language to succeed unless you can point to something and say "You literally can't do this in your language"

Without something like that, I think it just would have been impossible for Rust to gain enough momentum, and also attract the sort of people that made its culture what it is.

Otherwise, IMO Rust would have ended up just like D, a language that few people have ever used, but most people who have heard of it will say "apparently it's a better safer C++, but I'm not going to switch because I can technically do all that stuff in C++"

u/eigenspace

KarmaCake day3740February 4, 2018View Original