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daenz commented on Is the internet killing the nude beach?   theatlantic.com/family/ar... · Posted by u/fortran77
Jon_Lowtek · 3 years ago
Guess you are from the USA, where no digital age concept of privacy exists, and the word still has a 17th century meaning of "behind closed curtains at home" instead of the modern interpretation of "requiring consent of the data subject". I am from europa, our laws, culture and philosophy are different. More specifically i am german, and we have a nudist tradition that has nothing to do with making statements.

Not everything "in public" is a statement made with the consent to be recorded, shared over the internet by bystanders, exploited by corporations and archived for eternity. A public nude beach, and take note that this thread is actually about a private nude beach but let's argue the weaker point, is a place for people to be nude, not a place to be exploited to make porn. The fact that it is physically possibly to exploit a nude beach for softcore porn does not mean it is acceptable. In the same way that being nude at a shopping mall is physically possible, but socially not acceptable and mostly also not legal. Please note that nudism and exhibitionism are not the same.

For most participants Nudism is about freedom of self and a return to nature, it is about oneself, not about society or making statements, and not about pushing ones own nudity into other peoples faces. That would be exhibitionism. Many nudists are quite shy and not interested in becoming someone else wank material, or an actor on national television, or instahub. They do not wish to be recorded. They just want to be nude at the beach, there is no larger meaning or implied consent. Let me repeat that: being nude at a nude beach does not automatically imply consent to be filmed by anyone for any purpose. And we can argue this finer detail of "privacy" as being different from "privatly/publicly" and how it hinges on consent, without looking at nudism in particular:

Imagine every time you leave the house a national television crew follows you around. It doesn't actually matter what you do, they will cut and manipulate the footage to fit their narrative. You are not getting paid and are not consenting, and you have no influence on what the show is about. But it is going to be degrading, let's call it "americans most stupid". You should have stayed inside if you don't want to be exploited like that. This is the american idea of privacy: once you step outside, you have none. The usa does not differentiate between "being seen on the street, at a bar, at a beach" and "being published on national television, on instagram, on pornhub". If you want to use the former, you must accept to be exploited by the later and their endless supply of unpaid content creators. The european interpretation says that these people are not content creators, but creeps that are violating your human right to privacy and self determination by recording and publishing your activities without your consent.

The public is facing the tragedy of the commons as "public spaces" have become freely and easily exploitable by corporations in the age of surveillance capitalism and social media.

Note that european style privacy law is differentiated in the finer details: a person who films at a nude beach can claim to do so as a technological extension of their own personal memories and with no intention to publish the material and that is not in violation of privacy laws. This is the case in the thread starter. For the law it is the exploitation of the material, turning personal data of unwilling subjects into commodities without their consent, which is illegal. This is a detail most people at nude beaches do not like: they find the act of filming itself to be as creepy as a wanker sitting in the bushes.

daenz · 3 years ago
Thanks for the detailed reply, but I disagree with almost every point that you made. You took the extreme version of "no privacy" with the "America's most stupid" example, so allow me to take the opposite extreme. Imagine every conversation and every form of public interaction going through real-time government censors to decide if it is appropriate. If it's not appropriate (for some subjective definition of 'appropriate'), you're arrested or fined for offense. Sounds dystopian right? I'd much prefer being followed around by a malicious film crew in public all day.
daenz commented on Is the internet killing the nude beach?   theatlantic.com/family/ar... · Posted by u/fortran77
unethical_ban · 3 years ago
How can it be so difficult to comprehend, that people might want to be nude with other people but not have it shared with the entire world for all eternity?

How can you not comprehend there are stages between "complete and total privacy with one person for a moment" and "film this and display it for all time to everyone"?

daenz · 3 years ago
That's not difficult to comprehend at all. It sounds like you're not comprehending my point.
daenz commented on Is the internet killing the nude beach?   theatlantic.com/family/ar... · Posted by u/fortran77
aetherane · 3 years ago
Or it could be because it feels good.

Not everything has to be making a point against society. In places where being nude is normal, it isn't considered a weird thing.

daenz · 3 years ago
Why is being nude normal in some places, but not others? That suggests that a stigma exists in one but not the other, and so participating in one or the other is implicitly supporting that.
daenz commented on Is the internet killing the nude beach?   theatlantic.com/family/ar... · Posted by u/fortran77
saiya-jin · 3 years ago
Look mr prudent, you don't get the motivation why folks do it, fine, but show some respect. And yes there is huge difference between swimming naked and in some swim shorts. I couldn't care less about rebelling against something, and I am definitely not any kind of exhibitionist.

Done it cca twice if I don't count swimming during night, second time got sting on the shoulder from medusa that left burn scar for years and hurt like hell back then. The idea of getting something similar on my johnson makes me shudder even now.

daenz · 3 years ago
>And yes there is huge difference between swimming naked and in some swim shorts

I didn't say "swim shorts", I said underwear, which tend to be tight fitting and not baggy. And there really isn't a "huge difference."

daenz commented on Is the internet killing the nude beach?   theatlantic.com/family/ar... · Posted by u/fortran77
aqme28 · 3 years ago
Then why do people do this in cultures where it's not stigmatized?
daenz · 3 years ago
Which cultures are we talking about?
daenz commented on Is the internet killing the nude beach?   theatlantic.com/family/ar... · Posted by u/fortran77
davidgay · 3 years ago
> There's no functional difference between swimming in undergarments or swimming nude,

I can tell you haven't been backpacking.

daenz · 3 years ago
What does hiking with a pack have to do with swimming in water
daenz commented on Is the internet killing the nude beach?   theatlantic.com/family/ar... · Posted by u/fortran77
foobarbecue · 3 years ago
It's nice to get an even tan and some exercise and feel the sun and wind and water all over your body. Daenz... have you tried it?
daenz · 3 years ago
Yes. I've probably spent more time tanning at nude beaches than most people.
daenz commented on Crypto CEO behind $2.5B 'rug pull' arrested   pcgamer.com/crypto-ceo-be... · Posted by u/mrkramer
daenz · 3 years ago
The phrase "rug pull" is almost cartoonishly evil. It implies waiting until the victims are feeling nice and secure, and then you rip everything out from under them as quickly as possible. The fact that the phrase has become so closely related to crypto activities is really telling.
daenz commented on Is the internet killing the nude beach?   theatlantic.com/family/ar... · Posted by u/fortran77
aqme28 · 3 years ago
Of course, but that’s not why I’m swimming nude.
daenz · 3 years ago
Sorry but I just don't buy it. There's no functional difference between swimming in undergarments or swimming nude, so if you choose nude, it's because you don't think it should be stigmatized.

If you think it feels so much nicer, consider that it's because it's a mild rebellion against a social norm.

daenz commented on Is the internet killing the nude beach?   theatlantic.com/family/ar... · Posted by u/fortran77
aqme28 · 3 years ago
No.

I like to be nude swimming at the lake, but I don’t have a lake on my property.

There’s a whole culture of this in Eastern Germany, where I currently live.

daenz · 3 years ago
Your choice to swim nude in a public lake outweighing the choice to be more prudish is destigmatizing.

u/daenz

KarmaCake day17019November 2, 2011View Original