It's not the first time I complain about these articles from the same company popping up onto the front page, and I am really wondering how they are consistently doing this.
For a format that is easier to consume and isn't marketing content, see:
Readit Newscenophor commented on How JavaScript works: class static blocks and 6 proposed semantics blog.sessionstack.com/how... · Posted by u/zlatkov
cenophor commented on Tell HN: Thanks to thehodge and littlewarden.com, this site is up today · Posted by u/dang
None, tbh I don't try and pitch LW too hard, I just give them a heads up, probably a mistake but feels more ethical :)
This comment is just delightful to read.
Thanks for saving us from potential frustrations and for reminding us that helping others can be simply an act of kindness without a monetization scheme attached.
> probably a mistake
I hope you won't ever end up thinking that. :)
cenophor commented on Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate digitalrightswatch.org.au... · Posted by u/soylentbeige
> Not really sure what you are trying to achieve here than to push your own personal viewpoints on things that you don't like? I mean, I could say something like "I'm always kind of surprised by people who want to move to the US because the lack of gun laws", and what does that achieve?
The previous post simply engaged the original with additional comments on why someone might not want to move to Australia. You could always counter with your own thoughts on the matter. This is a place to discuss ideas. The post hardly felt pushy to me, and I don’t understand the skepticism of the poster’s intentions.
> The post hardly felt pushy to me, and I don’t understand the skepticism of the poster’s intentions.
Two things that lead me to thinking that:
* Blanket statement on censorship without providing further details and references * Picking a policy that affects a small part of the population and referencing articles that already say that many experts already find problematic
I think it's great that you could read the comment with good intentions, but the way that the details are presented and cherry-picked doesn't sit right with me.
I can only agree to disagree on your point that's just part of how we communicate.
cenophor commented on Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate digitalrightswatch.org.au... · Posted by u/soylentbeige
I've lived in Australia for 10 years and really considering my familys future in this country. We are sleep-walking towards a very average future.
An undiversified export economy, out of control house prices, a job-market primarily focused on two cities, a government intent on selling all public assets, very limited political interest in positive climate policies. The latter is simply addressed with "technology will help us out when we need it to".
It really feels sometimes that the only thing the average Australian cares about is the price of their property portfolio.
Or maybe 3 months into the Sydney lockdown is finally getting to me.
> It really feels sometimes that the only thing the average Australian cares about is the price of their property portfolio.
Maybe the sample average of the people you hang around is quite different from the population average.
The average Australian can't even afford to have a property portfolio, let alone caring about one.
cenophor commented on Australia’s new mass surveillance mandate digitalrightswatch.org.au... · Posted by u/soylentbeige
I'm always kind of surprised by people who move to Australia. It's a country that has had an active policy of censorship on entertainment for a very long time - books, video games, movies. The fact that the populace is okay with such a policy would make me reconsider moving there.
I've also read some really questionable things about policies regarding aboriginals in the northern territories. In 2007 the government 'temporarily' banned alcohol and porn for aboriginals as an 'emergency' measure.[0] And apparently it, or some replacement, is still in effect.[1]
Edit: also, turns out that banning alcohol doesn't get rid of alcohol consumption.[2] Who knew?
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jun/21/australia.jame...
[1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-17/nt-police-commissione...
[2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-07/qld-mornington-island...
You can say the same things about a lot of things in many countries, someone can probably say the same about the one you live in.
I suspect the censorship that you talk about are not as black and white as you seem to be trying to project. It's easy to cherry-pick the things that you don't like to get your own view across.
Not really sure what you are trying to achieve here than to push your own personal viewpoints on things that you don't like? I mean, I could say something like "I'm always kind of surprised by people who want to move to the US because the lack of gun laws", and what does that achieve?
Dead Comment
> I think you said is not the whole story
Right, that's why I said "Many chinese".
What I'm reacting to is the general tone that the CCP just forces draconian measures down everyone's throats as if no one could possibly ever agree, but also not dare speak up. What I mean is that the characterization that the whole populace just puts up with crap is a bit inaccurate because there are in fact supporters, just like there are both supporters and detractors to controversial government decisions on this side of the pond.
As someone else pointed out, these initiatives get passed precisely because there's enough support for it at some relevant branch of government, rather than being some sort of dictatorial whim of the party leader. And this process doesn't strike me as being super different from the way our democratically elected representatives bring up new bills.
> Right, that's why I said "Many Chinese".
No offense but I used to do this and I now think of it as a means of lying to myself that I have covered myself from the "edge cases" that don't support my obviously non-neutral arguments.
> And this process doesn't strike me as being super different from the way our democratically elected representatives bring up new bills.
This is the reason that I disagree with the rest of what you said.
There are no democratic elections in China, and the people who often end up making decisions for everyone else are selected and groomed to do that *according to the party's values* early on in life. What that means is that you won't be making any decisions in the first place if they feel that your values and motives do not, or have a chance that they will not, align with the part's interest.
So who gets in? It's people who are truly patriotic (and probably getting exploited for that), people with the relevant lineage, or mostly people who are just in it for career progression, power and money because the states control so much that you just simply can't advance without being part of the party.
In non-authoritarian countries you often have some means of recourse, including putting pressure on the government with media, if the government screws up. You can't even disagree with the CCP to begin with because the means of communication for most people are censored by the government. There are literally laws that the government can punish you with even if you just remotely disagree with the government.
Most people just want to live a normal life and value their assets and family above all. The country is generally growing well economically, so there are no real reasons for them to risk what they have in exchange for some intangible idealistic things that they have never experienced. This is literally the citizens self-policing themselves because control is deliberately built into every layer.
It is super different.
People literally do not dare to speak up, it's not anti-CCP people making up antagonistic stories.
> because there are in fact supporters, just like there are both supporters and detractors to controversial government decisions on this side of the pond.
I'm sure there are in fact supporters for pervasive control and surveillance in the name of protecting children and society. However, at least on "this side of the pond" we can oppose it without fearing any repercussions from the government. I can trash the policy all I like on any social media platform I want, I can write opinion pieces and submit to newspapers, I can organize groups to oppose the policy — all without fearing repercussions from the government. Can you do any of that under the CCP?
Get a piece of paper, divide it into acceptable and unacceptable, write down the things that fall into each category that align with your core values, then come back to read your arguments.
If you don't think there are any contradictions, great. If there are, perhaps there is nothing wrong with "the general tone" that you find problems with.
It depends on your environment. Say if you are at a university or something with students it will be very different than if you are working for a tech company with your Chinese co-workers. Also, southerners tend to be less nationalistic than northerners, so if you are in Beijing it is very different than if you are in Shanghai or Shenzhen (though if you are working at a tech company, your co-workers will be from all over China).
I've had co-workers who were really harmonious river crab, and some that were very non-harmonious grass mud horse...all in the same team. Outside of work, I didn't really talk about politics at all, it just never seemed to be that important beyond a lunch topic.
China was going in the right direction under Hu, if only because Hu was a weak leader. The authoritarian uptick really came back with Xi, and now that Xi has basically become president for life, it is really reinforced. It is a bit disheartening to see China move to being more liberal to more authoritarian all in a few short years. The trend probably won't change for a generation or two.
> It depends on your environment. Say if you are at a university or something with students it will be very different than if you are working for a tech company with your Chinese co-workers.
That's what I thought before I went there but it turned out to not be the case. What I am about to say is anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt.
I actually worked in Beijing. The work I did involved both tech companies and students, and I took the time outside of work to mingle with the locals at restaurants and shops. The amount of people who don't agree with the government was generally "surprisingly" high across all groups.
I should also point out that I never took the initiative to talk about politics, so in all cases it was either people being curious about the culture outside of China or, presumably, I was an outlet for them because I was clearly not affiliated with the government in any way.
I'm just going to leave it at that because anything I say past this point are even more subjective opinions.
China thinks that video games (specifically, the online variety) are harmful enough to children that it needs to be regulated at a federal level and children's exposure to games should be restricted. But here's the thing: We on the west do exactly the same thing for things like cigarettes, alcohol and gambling. The motivations behind all those restrictions are even similar (largely related to children's health/well-being).
It's a big double standard to call their flavor of restrictions "authoritarian", while being ok with (or even strongly in favor of) our flavor of restrictions, even though the two are objectively similar in nature.
Since you mentioned the great firewall, I think it's interesting to bring up some perspective I've heard from various Mainland Chinese people: that many of them thinks western media brainwashes us (think the thing about Olympic photo coverage of Chinese medalists) and many condemn westerner take on social matters (the US' handling of Covid, for example, is seen as a "proof" that the our infatuation with freedom has severe failings). I've even heard someone once say that "American egos wouldn't be able handle Chinese opinion if the firewall was lifted, because it's a voice 1.4b people strong - intellectuals, trolls and everything in between - who disapprove of American ideologies".
To be clear: I'm not attempting to inflame, I'm merely bringing up what I heard from their side, for your edification. My advice is to be careful of using loaded terminology such as "authoritarian"; you don't own objective truth, and humility might go a long way in dispelling animosity from both sides.
> I've heard from various Mainland Chinese people: that many of them thinks western media brainwashes us (think the thing about Olympic photo coverage of Chinese medalists) and many condemn westerner take on social matters (the US' handling of [COVID], for example, is seen as a "proof" that the our infatuation with freedom has severe failings).
That's clearly anecdotal because I worked and lived there for a year recently and what you said is only what *some* of them think.
I have spoken to many people, particularly those who are yonung and educated, who don't think like what you have said. Many people are also very eager to speak to foreigners about their governments and, in some extreme cases, they openly criticize their own for exactly the same reasons that much of the HN crowd probably would. Also, I was just a regular worker who wasn't anyone's boss, and I spoke to them in Chinese.
I'm not interested in debating against anecdotes with more anecdotes, but I think what you said is not the whole story of "their side" and is potentially manipulative even if it wasn't your intention to be.
I also don't think "authoritarian" is a loaded word, it's just an indication of how likely or unlikely someone is willing to work with others openly. The important thing is what to do to fix it, hopefully, together, after realizing what the issues could be, not toning in down and making everyone comfortable with some illusions in the first place.
Edit: it was pointed out below that it's probably more influenced by an increase in environmentally damaging activities such as logging.
Edit 2: Yes, I think that murdering peaceful, innocent protestors is a disgusting act. I'm just questioning the article's use of statistics
There is probably nothing logically wrong with that question, and you are probably right that there is a correlation. But... seriously?