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bkettle commented on AI will make formal verification go mainstream   martin.kleppmann.com/2025... · Posted by u/evankhoury
marcosdumay · 3 days ago
There are many really important properties to enforce even on the most basic CRUD system. You can easily say things like "an anonymous user must never edit any data, except for the create account form", or "every user authorized to see a page must be listed on the admin page that lists what users can see a page".

People don't verify those because it's hard, not for lack of value.

bkettle · 3 days ago
Yeah fair enough. I can definitely see the value of property-based verification like this and agree that useful properties could be easy to express and that LLMs could feasibly verify them. I think full verification that an implementation implements an entire spec and nothing else seems much less practical even with AI, but of course that is just one flavor of verification.
bkettle commented on AI will make formal verification go mainstream   martin.kleppmann.com/2025... · Posted by u/evankhoury
PunchyHamster · 3 days ago
Prediction: Fuck no.

AI is unreliable as it is. It might make formal verification a bit less work intensive but the last possible place anyone would want the AI hallucinations are in verification.

bkettle · 3 days ago
The whole point I think, though, is that it doesn’t matter. If an LLM hallucinates a proof that passes the proof checker, it’s not a hallucination. Writing and inspecting the spec is unsolved, but for the actual proof checking hallucinations don’t matter at all.
bkettle commented on AI will make formal verification go mainstream   martin.kleppmann.com/2025... · Posted by u/evankhoury
bkettle · 3 days ago
I think formal verification shines in areas where implementation is much more complex than the spec, like when you’re writing incomprehensible bit-level optimizations in a cryptography implementation or compiler optimization phases. I’m not sure that most of us, day-to-day, write code (or have AI write code) that would benefit from formal verification, since to me it seems like high-level programming languages are already close to a specification language. I’m not sure how much easier to read a specification format that didn’t concern itself with implementation could be, especially when we currently use all kinds of frameworks and libraries that already abstract away implementation details.

Sure, formal verification might give stronger guarantees about various levels of the stack, but I don’t think most of us care about having such strong guarantees now and I don’t think AI really introduces a need for new guarantees at that level.

bkettle commented on What Americans die from vs. what the news reports on   ourworldindata.org/does-t... · Posted by u/alphabetatango
jakeydus · 2 months ago
Agreed. I think the newscaster joke in arrested development was a solid demonstration of this point. For those who don't know it, the showrunners would frequently insert a news clip of the same reporter summarizing whatever silly plot was going on, ending with: "What this means for your weekend, at 10."

Honestly that's what people watch the news for. What are external factors that they were previously unaware of that might impact their lives (or weekends)? Most (not all) people are aware of the dangers posed by heart disease. They're not watching the news to learn about something they're already aware of.

I might be beating this horse to a second death, but there's a section of road near where I live that's dangerous, and we all know it's dangerous. It's not newsworthy. If another section of road collapsed and introduced a new danger, then that's newsworthy. News is newsworthy because it's new and unfamiliar. If something is reported on that's old and unfamiliar, then that's a documentary. If it's new and familiar, then that's a paradox. Or maybe a fun anecdote at a party.

bkettle · 2 months ago
> there's a section of road near where I live that's dangerous, and we all know it's dangerous

Clearly not enough people know it’s dangerous or how dangerous it is, or one of them would do something about it

bkettle commented on Uv overtakes pip in CI   wagtail.org/blog/uv-overt... · Posted by u/ThibWeb
aaronbrethorst · 2 months ago
I'm stuck on poetry until Snyk adds support for uv. Ugh. If anyone from Snyk is reading this, please go yell at whoever Jacob is: https://support.snyk.io/s/question/0D5PU00000u1G4n0AE/suppor...
bkettle · 2 months ago
Semgrep has supported uv for months now (I added it).
bkettle commented on NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy   github.com/karpathy/nanoc... · Posted by u/huseyinkeles
karimf · 2 months ago
I've always thought about the best way to contribute to humanity: number of people you help x how much you help them. I think what Karpathy is doing is one of the highest leverage ways to achieve that.

Our current world is build on top of open source projects. This is possible because there are a lot of free resources to learn to code so anyone from anywhere in the world can learn and make a great piece of software.

I just hope the same will happen with the AI/LLM wave.

bkettle · 2 months ago
This free tradition in software is I think one of the things that I love so much, but I don't see how it can continue with LLMs due to the extremely high training costs and the powerful hardware required for inference. It just seems like writing software will necessarily require paying rent to the LLM hosts to keep up. I guess it's possible that we'll figure out a way to do local inference in a way that is accessible to everyone in the way that most other modern software tools are, but the high training costs make that seem unlikely to me.

I also worry that as we rely on LLMs more and more, we will stop producing the kind of tutorials and other content aimed at beginners that makes it so easy to pick up programming the manual way.

bkettle commented on $912 energy independence without red tape   sunboxlabs.com/... · Posted by u/nikodunk
LikeBeans · 2 months ago
We get 2-3 power outages every year where I live. Mainly due to trees with ice/snow/wind. My solution was to buy three power banks. A 500Wh, and a couple of 300Wh. I have a pluggable camp fridge too and a gas fireplace. So one battery powers the fan in the fireplace, another for the cooler to keep the food from spoiling. And the third one for a couple of the lights (with LED bulbs). Works great and we can handle an outage that lasts about 4-5 days. Also we got 4 of these rechargeable lanterns for lights around the house. I just keep the batteries and lanterns charged. Really easy and my investment is about $1000.
bkettle · 2 months ago
Do you mean 500Wh rather than 500kWh? 500 kWh would be around 10 EVs worth, and looks like it costs around 700k [0], but 500Wh seems to be a common size for portable power stations [1]

[0] https://www.backupbatterypower.com/products/516-kwh-industri...

[1] https://www.ankersolix.com/products/535?variant=497024349310...

bkettle commented on PEP 810 – Explicit lazy imports   peps.python.org/pep-0810/... · Posted by u/azhenley
ashu1461 · 3 months ago
Not sure if this can be made backward compatible.

Right now all the imports are getting resolved at runtime example in a code like below

  from file1 import function1
When you write this, the entire file1 module is executed right away, which may trigger side effects.

If lazy imports suddenly defer execution, those side effects won’t run until much later (or not at all, if the code path isn’t hit). That shift in timing could easily break existing code that depends on import-time behavior.

To avoid using lazy, this there is also a proposal of adding the modules you want to load lazily to a global `__lazy_modules__` variable.

bkettle · 3 months ago
I think they mean backwards-compatible syntax-wise, rather than actually allowing this feature to be used on existing code. If I’m understanding correctly they would prefer for the Python grammar to stay the same (hence the comment about updating parsers and IDEs).

But I don’t think I really agree, the extensible annotation syntaxes they mention always feel clunky and awkward to me. For a first-party language feature (especially used as often as this will be), I think dedicated syntax seems right.

bkettle commented on US government shuts down after Senate fails to pass last-ditch funding plan   bbc.com/news/live/clylje0... · Posted by u/david927
jandrewrogers · 3 months ago
As someone who actually worked for the Federal government when it shutdown in the past, people are exaggerating the implications for narrative purposes. This happens semi-routinely, there is a boring reality that goes along with it.

The people worst off are Federal contractors. They are effectively unemployed during these periods. Many actual employees, like me in previous shutdowns, are essentially on irregular paid time off. In theory it is unpaid, but it is always retroactively paid in practice and everyone knows this. People that are “critical” kind of get a raw deal because they still have to work while people deemed less essential don’t have to work.

It is unfortunate that it happens but I wouldn’t get overly caught up in the theater of it all.

bkettle · 3 months ago
I found out yesterday that it is now the law that federal employees are guaranteed back pay after a shutdown, thanks to the Government Employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019 passed after the 2019 shutdown.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/24

bkettle commented on Cloudflare Email Service: private beta   blog.cloudflare.com/email... · Posted by u/tosh
TeMPOraL · 3 months ago
Businesses want to protect the continuity of their business operations, and to that end they buy such protection as a service, from a business that managed to MitM half the Internet in order to provide such service.

Point being, it's a commercial subverting the Internet from inside, reshaping it to better serve the interests of commerce. It is indeed protection, but it's accomplished by reducing variance. 99% of legitimate commerce on the Internet follows the same patterns, use a small subset of possibilities offered by the technology - so why not just block the remaining 1% that doesn't fit and call it a day? It will stop most of the threats to running businesses on the Internet. The 1% of legitimate commerce that doesn't fit the pattern? It's not being ignored per se, just pressured to adapt and conform to the majority.

What is being ignored is that the Internet is not just a place of commerce, and non-commercial use cases, ideas such as empowering people to better their lives, are gradually becoming impossible, as fundamental Internet infrastructure becomes inhospitable for them.

Some of us still remember the Internet being more than just a virtual mall, and are unhappy about it gradually becoming one. And it's not like CloudFlare, et al. are hostile to non-commercial interests as a matter of principle - it's just out of scope for them.

bkettle · 3 months ago
I actually think that Cloudflare has made publishing on the internet _more_ accessible for many individuals. I’ve helped a few people get personal websites running on Cloudflare pages and run my own there—it’s free and extremely easy. They could obviously pull the plug at any point, but with static sites it’s easy to avoid lock-in. If it weren’t for Cloudflare and other services that give free, easy hosting, I suspect there would be even fewer of the non-commercial small-internet sites that you value.

u/bkettle

KarmaCake day462September 18, 2022
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