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belligeront commented on Poets' Odd Jobs   poets.org/text/poets-odd-... · Posted by u/alekq
belligeront · a year ago
I have not been myself, but there is an exhibition currently at The Cantor Arts Center at Stanford University called "Day Jobs":

https://museum.stanford.edu/exhibitions/day-jobs

belligeront commented on IBM and the Holocaust   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM... · Posted by u/Zaheer
SoftTalker · a year ago
This is where government sanctions come in. While some companies may behave morally, we can't expect that they all will when there is money to be made.

If we the people as represented by our government decide that a particular foreign regime is off-limits, then companies are compelled to not do business with them. We don't leave it to choice.

belligeront · a year ago
Shouldn’t individuals and companies also have a set of morals?
belligeront commented on IBM and the Holocaust   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM... · Posted by u/Zaheer
belligeront · a year ago
What is antisemitic about suggesting that there should be conversation about how AI is used in warfare?
belligeront commented on IBM and the Holocaust   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM... · Posted by u/Zaheer
Aloha · a year ago
I remember reading this book when it came out in 2002 and the expanded version in 2012.

It made a largely circumstantial case for IBM's involvement in the holocaust.

Yes - the following things are true:

* Germany used IBM Tabulating Equipment to compile its racial census.

* Deutsch Reichsbahn used IBM Punched Card equipment to run most of its operations.

* The German Government made extensive use of IBM Punched Card equipment to track prisoners, including in the concentration camps.

Beyond those three facts the case is basically circumstantial - Black made a bunch of suppositions when drawing his conclusions -

* IBM New York knew all of the particulars of use of its tabulating equipment, and what the outcomes would be.

* IBM New York had defacto continuing control of its german subsidiary (Dehomag) even after it was functionally nationalized.

* IBM New York provided technology and parts thru IBM Geneva.

* Profits from Dehomag were funneled thru IBM Geneva to IBM New York.

* Most glaringly, he asserts that IBM Punched Card technologies were the only way to do what Nazi Germany did at the scale it did it at.

However he makes the assertions without much backing evidence for it, and its all clouded in an aura of leading purple prose.

This article presents a pretty concise version of the gaping flaws in the book - https://muse.jhu.edu/article/33853

Most notably, the book leaves out important context - even if everything he supposed about IBM were true, what IBM did wasn't unique, it was common corporate practices at the time, indeed, many american corporations had similar subsidiaries, all of whom at a minimum contributed to the german war effort.

belligeront · a year ago
He claimed in 2002, after the book was published, to have found additional evidence that IBM established a Polish subsidiary after Germany invaded Poland to sell machines to the Nazi government.

https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/The-business-of-makin...

belligeront commented on IBM and the Holocaust   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM... · Posted by u/Zaheer
belligeront · a year ago
Highly recommend listening to this HBR podcast about the same topic. [1]

TJ Watson (of IBM) is quoted as saying: “I’m an internationalist. I cooperate with all forms of government, regardless of whether I can subscribe to all of their principles or not.”

I hear a lot of similar echos within tech companies right now. People using “we’re a business” to shut down discussion about the role of supplying AI technology to Israel, who has been using AI to choose bombing targets [2].

[1] https://hbr.org/podcast/2019/11/lessons-from-ibm-in-nazi-ger...

[2] https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

belligeront commented on I spoke with a Google worker fired for protesting $1.2B Israel contract   thehandbasket.co/p/google... · Posted by u/KittenInABox
kortilla · a year ago
There isn’t anything intellectually interesting about this. It’s drama over a very long standing political lightning rod
belligeront · a year ago
It has been reported Israel is using AI to choose bombing targets. How is that not intellectually interesting or relevant to a forum about technology?

https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

belligeront commented on Google’s newly formed 'Platforms and Devices' team is all about AI   theverge.com/2024/4/18/24... · Posted by u/thecybernerd
momofuku · a year ago
I'd recommend folks read the last section of the announcement where these changes were announced [1]. The section is titled "Mission First", and I'm pretty sure the recent altercations at Google Cloud's offices over the past week [2] motivated much of the writing in this section. This seems like a stark change in how things happened at Google, and to put it explicitly in a blog was something I couldn't imagined to have happened in ~2017-2022.

[1] - https://blog.google/inside-google/company-announcements/buil...

[2] - https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/google-workers-arrested-afte...

belligeront · a year ago
I find the use of "this is a business" logic to dissuade political discussion about a company's own business practices to be extremely troubling. Yes, there can be a discussion about the proper way to have these conversations, but dismissing discussion of ethics with an attitude of "this is a business" has lead to some horrific outcomes throughout history.

I highly recommend listening to this podcast about IBM's role in Nazi Germany https://hbr.org/podcast/2019/11/lessons-from-ibm-in-nazi-ger...

TJ Watson (of IBM) had a similar "this is a business" outlook: “I’m an internationalist. I cooperate with all forms of government, regardless of whether I can subscribe to all of their principles or not.” IBM's machines were extremely important part of Nazi Germany's Holocaust efforts, and there is evidence that IBM was actively working with Nazi Germany after the invasion of Poland [1].

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/The-business-of-makin...

belligeront commented on The business of making the trains to Auschwitz run on time [2002]   sfgate.com/opinion/articl... · Posted by u/belligeront
belligeront · a year ago
I thought this was relevant given recent stories about AI being used to identify military targets.

The author claims that IBM established a subsidiary in Poland named "Watson Business Machines" to work with Nazis after Germany invaded Poland.

u/belligeront

KarmaCake day661December 7, 2013View Original