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barnaclejive commented on Why do we work so damn much?   nytimes.com/2021/06/29/op... · Posted by u/anirudhgarg
trixie_ · 4 years ago
The machine is way more than superficial stuff. Our government, legal process, financial system, medical, communication networks, food production, media, on and on - are part of the machine.

Machines require maintenance. And at this point the machine is so big we can barely keep it going at 40 hours a week. Automation may save us, but it seems like we automate just enough to open up new capability that itself requires maintenance.

barnaclejive · 4 years ago
This is one of the few non-self-focused views I have seen posted on this thread.

So many other people are jumping to discuss the topic in terms of other people like themselves or better off.

The "machine" is very much way more than superficial stuff.

Some gears in the machine are being set aside as non-functional, but the machine is so large that it still keeps "working" without those gears, and ignores the potential net-win if we cared enough to get them back in play.

It is like paying down technical debt. Sure, you can run your system as-is and pay the bills, but ideally you'd optimize for memory and CPU and pay less in the long-run. It is a hard problem to take on as we all know given other priorities and the perceived low cost of doing nothing about it right now.

Those gears are not RAM or CPU though, they are your fellow humans, and we need to act as such. I am sickened by by some of the comments here boiling this all down to an out-of-touch algorithmic and/or privileged viewpoint.

cirrus3 commented on Why do we work so damn much?   nytimes.com/2021/06/29/op... · Posted by u/anirudhgarg
Mandelmus · 4 years ago
It's a collective design that's been arrived at iteratively over many generations but it's still designed insofar that it's composed of countless consciously created and refined incentive structures, cultural norms, legal constructs, and institutions that in concert further our current system.
cirrus3 · 4 years ago
Mandelmus

blah blah blah. Stop. Think like a human capable of empathy and less like an algorithm for once. Society is not as simple as the hardest problem you have or will ever have to think about. And guess what, you would not pass that interview.

cirrus3 commented on Why do we work so damn much?   nytimes.com/2021/06/29/op... · Posted by u/anirudhgarg
themodelplumber · 4 years ago
> it's composed of countless consciously created and refined incentive structures

So you don't suppose there's much unconsciously created and refined structure to it?

We hear so much about anxiety and pressure being rampant in modern society. I just wonder why mention of these (and other, unwanted, disavowed) forces is always left out of all the design talk. It seems to me to be the perfect setup for the worst parts of tomorrow's "design"...

cirrus3 · 4 years ago
He obviously doesn't. He is leaning hard on his highly questionable algorithmic narrative and has no actual clue on how real life works for many people or any exposure to it off his keyboard.

It is sad for everyone really knowing these people exist.

cirrus3 commented on Why do we work so damn much?   nytimes.com/2021/06/29/op... · Posted by u/anirudhgarg
Mandelmus · 4 years ago
It's a collective design that's been arrived at iteratively over many generations but it's still designed insofar that it's composed of countless consciously created and refined incentive structures, cultural norms, legal constructs, and institutions that in concert further our current system.
cirrus3 · 4 years ago
Mandelmus that is a lot of meaningless words to avoid the recognition that there are systematic objectives in play to repress others. "collective design" is stupid fancy term and you will look dumb saying that in person to anyone in real life.
cirrus3 commented on Why do we work so damn much?   nytimes.com/2021/06/29/op... · Posted by u/anirudhgarg
trixie_ · 4 years ago
Why do many millionaires and billionaires continue to work super hard? People on TV, people in power, they are set for life financially and yet they still work.

It's because just like the rest of us - it's what we do. We don't know how not to work without feeling like we should be doing something 'productive'. It's more cultural than anything else.

cirrus3 · 4 years ago
You could not miss the point harder.

You are in bubble if you think people are working harder just to feel more productive.

> Just like the rest of us

? who exactly do you only include in your sense of "us"?

cirrus3 commented on Why do we work so damn much?   nytimes.com/2021/06/29/op... · Posted by u/anirudhgarg
hiram112 · 4 years ago
I hear this trope all the time, that if I just avoided my Starbucks and IPhone, Netflix and Spotify subscriptions, I could live like a King on 10 hours per week job, in our modern land-of-plenty utopia.

But that's baloney. A 3BR average home in my city is now 6x median income, and that's with average households being 2 full-time workers instead of 1. And this isn't some 3k sq ft McMansion - another common strawman - it's the same dumpy house that a single earner easily afforded at 3x salary 40 years ago.

All the other big-ticket items that I spend 80% of my salary on have increased at similar rates.

A lot of Americans do overspend and are obsessed with keeping up with the Jones. You realize that when you go to the grocery store and 1/2 the cars in the parking lot are $50k SUVs and gigantic pickups.

But even if you're a modest person making $50k a year in a medium COL city, the cost of the new Iphone or flat screen TV you bought is inconsequential to the expenses you can't avoid - housing, health care, education, transportation, etc. All of these have almost doubled in price relative to the income of a single full time worker in the last four decades.

cirrus3 · 4 years ago
Yep.. this article is trope trope trope city, don't bother.
barnaclejive commented on Why do we work so damn much?   nytimes.com/2021/06/29/op... · Posted by u/anirudhgarg
barnaclejive · 4 years ago
> Millionaires don't need to work, yet still do, so looking at them provides a unique view into the human condition.

Does it tho?, "lets look harder at why the millionaires work.. that seems like a good starting point." /s

barnaclejive · 4 years ago
OP seems to like his downvote privilege more than owning up to his ignorance.
barnaclejive commented on Why do we work so damn much?   nytimes.com/2021/06/29/op... · Posted by u/anirudhgarg
themodelplumber · 4 years ago
> our current system is designed

Do people really believe this language is accurate or likely to be helpful? What are we going to do, locate the designer and thwart their evil plan? Or attempt to locate the blueprint?

It seems to me that this kind of wording gives way too much credit to human consciousness.

barnaclejive · 4 years ago
^ this
cirrus3 commented on Why do we work so damn much?   nytimes.com/2021/06/29/op... · Posted by u/anirudhgarg
onlyrealcuzzo · 4 years ago
It's pretty easy to survive - even if you're homeless - anywhere in the advanced world - sure, I'll give you that.

But in the hunter gatherer days - people learned skills to make this much easier to survive than it would be for some random person to do today.

But I think there was more to life, even in hunter gatherer days, than surviving. Surely, they also put some effort into not being miserable.

I'm not convinced that 15 hours of unskilled labor per week is enough to be not-miserable in most places where people actually live in the US.

It's not like homeless people have the skills to go forage in the forests and enjoy the natural beauty of life. We don't learn those skills anymore. And even if we did, you'd have a hard time convincing anyone to leave civilization and join you - and we all have social needs...

I think I'd much rather camp in the peace and quiet in a tight knit community in a decent shelter with fresh food than on the streets or in a crappy old car basically only able to afford to eat processed variations of corn - which is what you'd be doing on 15 hours per week.

cirrus3 · 4 years ago
> It's pretty easy to survive - even if you're homeless

Stop typing. Stop now.

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u/barnaclejive

KarmaCake day239May 14, 2015View Original