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aestetix commented on EU Council approves Chat Control mandate for negotiation with Parliament   techradar.com/vpn/vpn-pri... · Posted by u/mseri
saubeidl · a month ago
Not only are you moving your goalposts from "this wasn't the original purpose" (it was - it's part of the founding document!), but it has been reaffirmed and strengthened over and over again since: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...

Don't get me wrong - I, too, care about privacy and think Chat Control is a horrible idea, that thankfully seems to be getting shut down. That doesn't mean the EU is somehow not legitimate as a governing body.

aestetix · a month ago
I was not moving goalposts. I was saying that the way we interpret the words has changed over time, and therefore we are taking words that meant one thing in 1957 and reinterpreting them to fit assumptions for today. Thus the semantic drift creates a shift.

To address the other point, I think we're missing a question of scope. Is the EU a legitimate governing body for negotiating trade deals and employment regulations between countries? Absolutely. I question however whether in recent years EU has begun to either scope-drift or expand their scope beyond what might be considered reasonable.

I think this is a natural tendency within human nature, especially when a governing body is given some power. Over time new opportunities arise which allow the body to gain more power, and then they reinterpret founding documents to include some of the new powers they want. I think it is pretty clear this is happening with the EU. Look at the rise of nationalist parties in Germany and France, etc.

aestetix commented on EU Council approves Chat Control mandate for negotiation with Parliament   techradar.com/vpn/vpn-pri... · Posted by u/mseri
saubeidl · a month ago
> The EU was created as an economic and trade institution. How has it morphed into a wierd political institution, which NATO was already supposed to be?

That is not the case.

The 1957 Treaty Establishing the European Community contained the objective of “ever closer union” in the following words in the Preamble. In English this is: “Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe …..”.

> The root question: how did an organization that ushered in things like the Euro become a body that decides whether Europeans are allowed to have personal privacy?

Sensationalist framing aside, how does any government become a body that decides anything?

aestetix · a month ago
That treaty was established just over a decade after Hitler surrendered, when there were two Germanys, an Iron curtain across Europe, and a lot of other things which changed significantly after the Wall fell. Surely you would agree that those words meant something quite different then than they do now?

I don't think my framing was sensationalist at all. Chat Control is using the threat of child porn to make people forget the reasons why the ECHR cares so deeply about privacy. I'm not sure why Denmark is pushing it so hard, but governments have long feared and hated encryption.

aestetix commented on EU Council approves Chat Control mandate for negotiation with Parliament   techradar.com/vpn/vpn-pri... · Posted by u/mseri
aestetix · a month ago
Honest question. The EU was created as an economic and trade institution. How has it morphed into a wierd political institution, which NATO was already supposed to be?

The root question: how did an organization that ushered in things like the Euro become a body that decides whether Europeans are allowed to have personal privacy?

aestetix commented on Peter Thiel sells off all Nvidia stock, stirring bubble fears   thestreet.com/investing/p... · Posted by u/hypeatei
aestetix · a month ago
It's because he knows about the Antichrist.
aestetix commented on Greg Newby, CEO of Project Gutenberg Literary Archive Foundation, has died   pgdp.net/wiki/In_Memoriam... · Posted by u/ron_k
aestetix · 2 months ago
Can we get a black bar for Dr. Newby?

u/aestetix

KarmaCake day5712May 23, 2011
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