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adantical commented on Ask HN: How do you overcome feeling completely lost in life?    · Posted by u/adantical
jetsnoc · 3 years ago
I've been in what I think is a similar place before. Every now and then, I still find myself right there on the edge. In those moments, for me, it's not that I want to exist, or not exist, it's just ...grey. And, an average grey at that - let's call it #CCC. Nothing drives me or energizes me. I just ... am. The advice you mention -- finding friends, connecting with the world around you, finding purpose, finding passion, finding things that satisfy the brain -- was always useless advice to me. It's honestly good advice if a person is in a position to receive it and when they try it, it actually works and moves the needle. It just didn't work for me because it was the wrong timing. I needed to solve my first problems first.

I had to figure out my brain chemistry and what my brain needed. Once everything was mostly fine-tuned through some meds and therapy, I was able to better figure out what I needed.

I found the advice that was previously useless to me made a difference. It's not like code though where you knock something out and after twenty hours of hard work you feel like you achieved something grand and you're proud of your work. No, this is a much slower pace and it requires persistence. Small attempts day by day leads to things looking entirely different after a year.

I needed to work on my physical health and exercise more. I needed healthier habits and boundaries with work. That put my brain chemistry in an even better position.

I needed a connection to people. I too am not the best at maintaining relationships. My brain has issues with object permanence. If it is not in front of me, even people, I just don't think about them. I set up a notebook as a personal CRM and I try to check in with a group of friends and a very close friend as often as I can. Be sure to make a close friend or two. Someone you can share who you really are with. Talk about the things that are not going well in your life. Our culture doesn't promote people being vulnerable with one another but it makes a huge difference if you can find a friend you feel comfortable getting close to. It was challenging for me in my mid to late thirties to try and connect with people again. People are married, have kids, and have moved on and I simply did not stay in touch. Here I was suddenly 'showing back up' as if I hadn't flaked on them for the last 15 years. It has made a difference to have friends. At the end of the day, we're a social species, even the most introverted of us. It may not feel natural or it may not even feel like it's improving your situation but keep grinding it out to create some close friends. I'm a software developer too. I find I like the ritual of being tenacious and pushing through to solve interesting problems. It's a dopamine hit for me to have an interesting problem and solve it. I then love factoring the solution until it is the best abstraction I can come up with. But, my brain has an issue with classifying "interesting" correctly so I have to hack my motivation on mundane work frequently. If an issue isn't interesting, my brain loses motivation. If it is something that really interests my brain, I'm fully on board until I understand the inner workings. I find I have to hack my motivations with relationships, too. I started to treat it as a social experiment and something I needed to figure out.

You might try to find some gregarious folks who do things outside of your comfort zone. Find people with passions that are different than yours but not in a mediocre way where you will be bored and not interested when they talk. You write code and debug it and build up a mental model of how it works. You're going to want to find people with similarly challenging work and passions. It could be anything, maybe they like riding horses, magnet fishing, riding ATVs, camping, shooting, goofing around on a podcast, rock climbing, ballroom dancing, sewing, or painting. Maybe they're just funny and make you laugh and you appreciate the hours of hard work and their ability to craft and weave an interesting story and nail it with a punch line. Find a friend that will call you up on a Saturday and get you to do something you haven't done before. Some of my best memories with friends are of them pushing me out of my comfort zones and me pushing them out of theirs. If that is too far of a reach, I've found working on open-source software gets you into a community and it's not that far of a stretch to make friends in those communities. I met a lot of people through the Asterisk PBX community decades ago. I couldn't value any of this though until I solved my first problems first.

I don't know if any of my advice is helpful or resonates. I am absolutely not an expert. I'm just another person slinging code, trying to find my wallet or keys in my house, living on this rock that is hurling through space at 1.3 million miles per hour.

My personal email is in my profile. Don't hesitate to reach out to me either.

adantical · 3 years ago
> I too am not the best at maintaining relationships. My brain has issues with object permanence.

Funny that you mention this, because this concept of "permanence" is something I've just recently been able to attach a word to. I definitely struggle with both object and a sort of emotional permanence, where I have trouble relating to anything that isn't within my current time and space domain. In a way, I feel there is a deep truth here, that indeed nothing exists outside of the present moment. Everything is impermanent. The trouble is integrating this with a normal human existence with interpersonal connections, where we need to maintain some level of social consistency to form any kind of lasting relationship.

Interesting perspective of separating the biological system "you" from a kind of meta-management "you" though. I tend to identify my "self" with the biological body/brain system, and that might be why any kind of meta-programming seems unnatural/untrue in some way. Thank you for the insight.

adantical commented on Ask HN: How do you overcome feeling completely lost in life?    · Posted by u/adantical
quietthrow · 3 years ago
I agree with virtueman's comment here that there is something messed up with environment (using that term quite liberally here) where you have material luxury but can't quite share it with anybody. However in every problem lies an opportunity. And allow me to share it as how I -an outsider- sees it.

When you say `software developer quickly approaching 30 with no direction in life, no hobbies, no friends, no family, and no idea what I even want to change.`

I see the following facts: a person who can earn a reasonable amount of money to live well and who does not have pressing personal obligations to others at this point in their lives. This allows this person to do things that a lot of people can't do and as such he/she should try somethings that are well suited for said person as described by the facts.

Some actionable ideas: 1. Volunteer - ideally through physical labour. 2. Leave the country you are in work in a different place/culture. 3. Leave the country you are in and travel while keeping your job (this requires you have a remote job) 4. Explore new hobbies. People typically make friends around shared interests. 4.1 - eg: photography but of type that requires doing something new like, sports photography - forces you to go out to events and capture action; astrophotography - forces you to go out explore the night skies and be a part of that group; macro photography - forces you to see things that most people miss, Microscopic photography - get a microscope, stick a camera on it and stick a small piece of whatever you are having for lunch or dinner under it; bird photography - forces you to chase birds and the next thing you know you will meet interesting members from the Audubon society. 4.2 Arts: drawing, painting, sketching.. take some classes - ideally in person- see if anything sticks. 4.3 Creating something with your hands: wood working, ceramics etc 5. Last but not least - start listening to your inner voice. Most people feel lost (including myself when I was - more before than now) when for one reason or another have stopped listening what they wanted. I think this typically happens during childhood/yound adulthood and progresses over time to a point where what you want is completely overshadowed by your conceptions of what the society/environment/culture thinks of what somebody your age/type should want. This is usually years in the making and take some time to undo but with perseverance can be undone. Start small with little things like lunch - what do you want for lunch and not what you should be having for lunch. ask yourself such questions at various time during the day everyday to see if there is an incongruence between what you are doing in that moment / timeframe and what you want to do ideally (even if its impractical). this is how you listen yourself and over time learn to listen to you 'voice'

Good luck and the best is most definitely yet to come for you!

adantical · 3 years ago
Thank you for this perspective. Reading your comment and revisiting my own perspective through an "outsider's" lens has given me something to think about. The facts are true, and the objective view feels very valid to me. I am realizing I have some work to do in reconciling the two.

> I think this typically happens during childhood/yound adulthood and progresses over time to a point where what you want is completely overshadowed by your conceptions of what the society/environment/culture thinks of what somebody your age/type should want.

I suspect this is true as well. At some point the signals became so deeply entangled that now it's difficult to know which are originating internally vs from the external environment.

adantical commented on Ask HN: How do you overcome feeling completely lost in life?    · Posted by u/adantical
lordkrandel · 3 years ago
It's 6 AM. My wife's away for work, I didn't digest a pizza, I have dishes to do before the plumber comes at 8, a gift package to collect at some UPS point at 7, some residual burnout due to too many things to do in the last week, month, year, years, and a Monster energy drink yesterday which has completely blown up my metabolism. I'm on Discord looking for humans, you know, a little irrational, non-conformant human beings. That spark of chaos that brings curiosity back in and depression out. I've been struggling all life with minor depression, I'm 38. A developer who hasn't done any career. I remember times being younger nerding at night learning Linux with no regrets , or when I was playing in a videogames' music band. It's not what I do, it's the degree of freedom that I felt in doing it. Now I could play bass again but it would not be the same. But I'll tell you, keep on searching and fighting. Life is a journey, you'll never know where you'll end up. Things come unexpected
adantical · 3 years ago
> That spark of chaos that brings curiosity back in and depression out. > It's not what I do, it's the degree of freedom that I felt in doing it.

This rings true to me. In the depths of depression, I find that curiosity gets replaced with a self-fulfilling, self-defeating, yet overly self-confident prophecy -- that every new experience will just be a rebranding of something I've already experienced. I'm sorry to hear you've struggled in a similar way, but happy to hear you've found hope somewhere in the chaos. Thank you for the wisdom.

adantical commented on Ask HN: How do you overcome feeling completely lost in life?    · Posted by u/adantical
randomreader93 · 3 years ago
It's a little hard to provide good advice when you say that the deep sense of emptiness has always been with you, and that you have no idea what you want to change.

I'm sure you've spent a lot of time thinking about how you feel, so I find it interesting that you're unable to identify what potentially could fix the sense of emptiness. Have there been any times in your life when you felt significantly less empty or even somewhat closer to a sense of meaning?

I agree with a couple of the other posters that what society expects people to want can feel very sick and pointless, and that people in such a society often internalize unhealthy assumptions over time (selfishness, isolation, etc).

Maybe spending time in a foreign country with a healthier culture would be good, or trying to carefully reconsider some of the most fundamental axioms / perspectives that you might have unconsciously internalized. Maybe it's worth dropping some of those axioms or adopting new ones? If you feel like you've hit a bottom, then testing out new perspectives just for fun might be worthwhile (or at least harmless, since the only place to go is up).

adantical · 3 years ago
>I'm sure you've spent a lot of time thinking about how you feel, so I find it interesting that you're unable to identify what potentially could fix the sense of emptiness. Have there been any times in your life when you felt significantly less empty or even somewhat closer to a sense of meaning?

I do think too much self-awareness can be a problem, and maybe that's what you're getting at. The times when I don't feel as empty are usually when I'm distracted by something in the external world, and momentarily stop ruminating on my own thoughts. I do feel like they are "distractions", but now I am wondering why I consider them distractions (from what?), and if that's one of the fundamental axioms, as you say, that I should reconsider. Thank you for the insight.

adantical commented on Ask HN: How do you overcome feeling completely lost in life?    · Posted by u/adantical
tranchms · 3 years ago
Jim Carrey said:

“People talk about depression all the time. The difference between depression and sadness is sadness is just from happenstance — whatever happened or didn’t happen for you, or grief, or whatever it is. Depression is your body saying f*ck you, I don’t want to be this character anymore, I don’t want to hold up this avatar that you’ve created in the world. It’s too much for me.

You should think of the word ‘depressed’ as ‘deep rest.’ Your body needs to be depressed. It needs deep rest from the character that you’ve been trying to play.”

adantical · 3 years ago
I feel everyone is playing a character, in a way. There's more to unpack here, but perhaps I just haven't found the character that feels right/true.
adantical commented on Ask HN: How do you overcome feeling completely lost in life?    · Posted by u/adantical
t-3 · 3 years ago
I'm pretty much in the same boat, so I don't have any good advice, but you have my sympathy. The only thing that's kept me going for the past year is setting a "final project" to complete before I die. This "big goal" feels a little less pointless than the "small goals", even though I know it's not.
adantical · 3 years ago
May I ask what your "final project" is? I'm curious what you've identified as important or close to you in this way. I've felt like this before as well, like might as well dedicate my life to a project, but have never been able to keep up the motivation for big goals like this.
adantical commented on Ask HN: How do you overcome feeling completely lost in life?    · Posted by u/adantical
brutus1213 · 3 years ago
I used to feel intensely lonely until my 30s. I made significant efforts to get out there and socialize. Something changed and I'm now considered a very extroverted person by others. A few things clicked inside me. Some books you may want to consider:

1) Dale Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people book.

2) The Game by Neil Strauss(friend gave me a copy .. this is about pick up artists, something I never did but it was influential in some way)

3) Surely you're joking Mr. Feynmann

All these books have something about being social. I make it a bit to get to know strangers (on planes, uber rides, whatever). I almost think of it as a missed opportunity if I don't have an engaging conversation with people. Many are strangers and I'll never see them again, so if I say something stupid, whatever. I guess that is the idea I got from The Game.

I still suck in group settings socially. I feel incredibly awkward. But 1-1, I am actually impressed with my transformation. I was super introverted until exactly 30. I guess one other thing that changed is if someone invites me to something social, I always came along, and I kept a smile on my face. This was exceptionally easy to do in NYC (getting invites to hang out with people I mean).

I also have to say, friend, you must love and respect yourself, first and foremost. I felt some pain in your words. Look .. we all have done stupid things we may cringe on in reflection. My addiction is tech and online shopping. I try to do my vices in moderation. Don't judge yourself too harshly. We're all imperfect humans. Good luck to you.

adantical · 3 years ago
I will check out the books you mentioned. Judging from the books and your experience, it seems like maybe what changed for you was taking it all a little less seriously, which resonates with me. I do get the sense that some people approach life a bit more like a game, where sadness, joy, and fun are just naturally a part of the journey -- nothing more, nothing less. Thank you for your kind words.

u/adantical

KarmaCake day55November 30, 2022
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