Readit News logoReadit News
Vervious commented on The Raft Consensus Algorithm (2015)   raft.github.io/... · Posted by u/nromiun
Vervious · 7 months ago
not again!
Vervious commented on Why cryptography is not based on NP-complete problems   blintzbase.com/posts/cryp... · Posted by u/blintz
DevelopingElk · a year ago
Yes, this article is only talking about asymmetric cryptography. Symmetric cryptography and hashes are based on NP complete problems.This is only when generalized appropriately, most individual hashes/ciphers are fixed so there isn't really a way to talk about their complexity. The broader class of block cipher like problems is NP complete, and very hard.
Vervious · a year ago
no, the article is talking about symmetric key crypto also. (i.e. one way functions). You're talking about cryptosystems that don't have proofs of security, or reductions to heuristical assumptions
Vervious commented on Why cryptography is not based on NP-complete problems   blintzbase.com/posts/cryp... · Posted by u/blintz
krackers · a year ago
The article is a bit confusing (to me as a layman), basically as I understand it's saying that the reason we can't form cryptosystems out of arbitrary NP-complete problems is because there exist randomized algorithms that work for 99% of inputs (average vs. worst-case complexity, e.g. why the simplex algorithm works in practice). But there are some things missing:

* We know that randomized algorithms exist for NP-complete problems. But couldn't we have some problem in NP that while reducible to e.g. 3SAT always reduce to "very hard" instances?

* Conversely, there's no guarantee that there doesn't exist a randomized algorithm for something that's NP-hard (and not in NP), right?

The argument along the lines of NP-complete vs NP-hard seems to be a non-sequitur, since the actual distinction is average vs. worst-case hardness right? It may just so happen that all currently known problems in NP are easy "on average", but I don't think that's formally guaranteed.

Edit: https://theory.stanford.edu/~trevisan/average/slides.pdf seems to imply that (1) is an open question.

Vervious · a year ago
1) It'd be really really awesome to show average-case hardness version of a natural problem (i.e. 3SAT on a natural distribution) from the worst-case hardness of that problem (i.e. 3SAT). I believe it's wide open in the context of building one-way functions.

2) Randomized polynomial-time algorithms don't exist for NP-hard problems unless P = NP (iirc).

I think you have the right intuition. The issue is that right now cryptography is built on top of relatively "fragile" "average-case hard" problems -- discrete log, lattice stuff, etc. They are hard by assumption and we really don't know how to study them. (I would bet on some of this stuff being broken in our lifetimes).

It'd be really nice to instead base cryptography on an assumption that we are much more confident in being true, i.e. worst-case hardness of 3SAT. (I mean, who is going to prove P=NP). There are two steps:

1) First, show cryptography from average-case hardness of a "more believable" problem.

2) Second, to show average-case hardness of that problem is implied by the worst-case hardness of an NP-complete problem.

(1) is sort of better studied now, with a line of work on meta-complexity. (2) I believe is wide open, as previously mentioned.

Anyways I'm not really an expert in this area, but it's really quite fascinating.

Vervious commented on Why cryptography is not based on NP-complete problems   blintzbase.com/posts/cryp... · Posted by u/blintz
alexey-salmin · a year ago
I'd also note that zero-knowledge proofs (which are considered a branch of cryptography) often do rely on NP-complete problems like the three-color maps.
Vervious · a year ago
That's completely unrelated, the reliance there is because you want to be able to prove "any statement in NP" in zero knowledge. It then suffices to give a protocol for just 3-colorings, because "any statement in NP" can then be reduced to a 3-coloring.
Vervious commented on Why cryptography is not based on NP-complete problems   blintzbase.com/posts/cryp... · Posted by u/blintz
tofof · a year ago
It's unfortunate that he doesn't understand complexity analysis and has taken it upon himself to write an article that requires it as an underpinning.

In particular, I stopped reading at

> the discrete logarithm for elliptic curves, ... We don’t technically know whether these are NP-complete

This is wildly misleading. We do know with absolute certainty that the decision problem for DLC is NP-Hard, and therefore that EPDLC inherits at least NP-Hardness. While it is true that their presence in NP-Hard does not require their pressence in NP (and thus are not proved NP Complete), it is misleading to characterize as the author has here that they are weaker than NP, instead of the known certainty that NP is the absolute minimum bound for their hardness.

Vervious · a year ago
Not sure it's misleading, he did write the word "technically", and anyone who knows what NP-complete is knows that NP-hard does not necessarily mean NP-complete. I am a cryptographer and the article is fine.

Also, do you have a citation for "We do know with absolute certainty that the decision problem for DLC is NP-Hard"

Vervious commented on Why cryptography is not based on NP-complete problems   blintzbase.com/posts/cryp... · Posted by u/blintz
zeroonetwothree · a year ago
> For example, it could be possible that, if we generated a random map in some way, 99% percent of the time, the three-color map coloring problem would be easy, but 1% of the time, it would be very difficult.

> This would still be NP-complete, but would make for a terrible cryptosystem - a scheme based on this problem would be easily broken 99% of the time!

I don’t think this explanation is great. We could just generate instances until we found the hard one and then use it. So the answer is more complex than just as written.

Vervious · a year ago
how do you know if an instance you picked is hard?

Another problem with your suggestion: Do we even know that a 1/polynomial sized fraction of 3-coloring instances are hard? (Else you'll never sample one). (NP-Hardness certainly does not give such a guarantee, even though it sounds weak)

Vervious commented on Perplexity AI submits bid to merge with TikTok   techcrunch.com/2025/01/18... · Posted by u/ipster_io
Vervious · a year ago
tit for tat makes the U.S. more like the CCP, and less like the version of the U.S. that stands for freedom and democracy (that I presume you want to live in).

if you want to live in an American version of china where instead of bytedance we have zuckagram, go for it. Chinese social media has vastly out-innovated American platforms and the Zuck/Musk response is to ban the competition rather than write a proper law regulating social media platforms

Vervious commented on Raft: Understandable Distributed Consensus (2014)   thesecretlivesofdata.com/... · Posted by u/Hrun0
MarkMarine · a year ago
Right, but Paxos is double hard in comparison. I’ve read both papers multiple times, tried to implement and failed, and I still don’t think I understand Paxos.
Vervious · a year ago
Raft has a problem where, in the protocol description, sometimes I have no idea why some line is there, but if you take it out the protocol comes to a grinding halt... it's really a mumble jumble. It has good intuition, but the details are really messy, it's edge cases all the way down.

Whereas I think each line of pseudocode in Paxos is much more motivated.

In other words, if a philosopher had to design a crash-fault protocol from scratch, without having seen any before, I think 80% of the time it would look exactly like Paxos.

Vervious commented on Quantum computing's reality check   spectrum.ieee.org/quantum... · Posted by u/mathgenius
citizenpaul · 2 years ago
It was not one sitting... That's a textbook, it took a while. Probably over a year. I was also doing it along learning some of the math involved in another course. Also my SO is a physicist so I had some help.

The theory is great. The problem is that it all hinges on a scientific breakthrough that has not happened yet. I don't see it happening soon. Just my not totally uneducated opinion. I have no horse in the race I think the people claiming it will work "soon" are being a bit dishonest with themselves as well as everyone else. For all we know it will end up taking several other scientific breakthroughs to get all the parts needed. I personally think that is the case and why I say it will not be in our lifetime.

Vervious · 2 years ago
Makes sense!

u/Vervious

KarmaCake day1093August 20, 2012
About
My consensus protocols (Simplex, Streamlet) are the simplest and fastest in the literature, and taught at leading universities (in distributed systems courses, at e.g. Stanford, CMU, UIUC, etc) and deployed in industry (Tempo, Commonware, Ava Labs, Solana Alpenglow).

Website: https://simplex.blog

View Original