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MattHeffron commented on Cyc: History's Forgotten AI Project   outsiderart.substack.com/... · Posted by u/iafisher
chris_st · 2 years ago
I started my career in 1985, building expert systems on Symbolics Lisp machines in KEE and ART.

Expert systems were so massively oversold... and it's not at all clear that any of the "super fantastic expert" systems ever did what was claimed of them.

We definitely found out that they were, in practice, extremely difficult to build and make do anything reasonable.

The original paper on Eurisko, for instance, mentioned how the author (and founder of Cyc!) Douglas Lenat, during a run, went ahead and just hand-inserted some knowledge/results of inferences (it's been a long while since I read the paper, sorry), asserting, "Well, it would have figured these things out eventually!"

Later on, he wrote a paper titled, "Why AM and Eurisko appear to work" [0].

0: https://aaai.org/papers/00236-aaai83-059-why-am-and-eurisko-...

MattHeffron · 2 years ago
Depends on your definition of "super fantastic expert" systems.

I was one of the developers/knowledge engineers of the SpinPro™ Ultracentrifugation Expert System at Beckman Instruments, Inc. This was released in 1986, developed over about 2 years. This ran on an IBM PC (DOS)! This was a technical success, but not a commercial one. (The sales force was unfamiliar with promoting a software product, and which had little impact on their commissions vs. selling multi-thousand dollar equipment.) https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/bk-1986-0306.ch023 (behind ACS paywall)

Our second Expert System was PepPro™, which designed procedures for the chemical synthesis of peptides (essentially very small proteins). This was completed and to be released in 1989, but Beckman discontinued their peptide synthesis instrument product line just two months before. This system was able to integrate end-user knowledge with the built-in domain knowledge. PepPro was recognized in the first AAAI Conference on Innovative Applications of Artificial Intelligence in 1989. https://www.aaai.org/Papers/IAAI/1989/IAAI89-010.pdf

Both of these were developed in Interlisp-D on Xerox 1108/1186 workstations, using an in-house expert system development environment, and deployed in Gold Hills Common Lisp for the PC.

MattHeffron commented on The Revival of Medley/Interlisp   theregister.com/2023/11/2... · Posted by u/samizdis
mark_l_watson · 2 years ago
My company bought me a Xerox 1108 Lisp Machine running Interlisp D in 1982. I write a commercial product for that environment that we sold for $5K, and it was a lot of fun. I run the latest Medley releases occasionally just for nostalgia. For present day hacking enjoyment I go with SBCL Common Lisp+Emacs, or Racket, or Python when I need the ecosystem.

Xerox really did a great job creating their Lisp Machines, a joy to develop on.

MattHeffron · 2 years ago
Beckman Instruments got our Xerox 1108 in 1983 (and an 1186 a couple of years later). We developed Expert System commercial products in Interlisp-D but ported them to run on the PC (DOS) using the Gold Hill Common Lisp.

That was a wonderful environment to develop on. So, I'm now working on the Medley Interlisp Project!

SpinPro™ designs optimal ultracentrifugation procedures (for biology research) (Beckman manufactures and sells ultracentrifuge instruments.) SpinPro had issues with marketing, with few customers.

PepPro™ designs chemical procedures to synthesize custom peptides (small proteins). PepPro was essentially completed when Beckman Instruments dropped their entire Peptide Synthesis product line. (The PepPro user manual was in final review.)

SpinPro https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/bk-1986-0306.ch023

PepPro https://cdn.aaai.org/IAAI/1989/IAAI89-010.pdf

MattHeffron commented on The Revival of Medley/Interlisp   theregister.com/2023/11/2... · Posted by u/samizdis
vincent-manis · 2 years ago
I would be able to speak to the allegedly “impractical” nature of Scheme if only I knew why Cisco hired Kent Dybvig, the principal developer of Chez Scheme. I would also like to know why Beckman Coulter Life Sciences supported the development of Swish, an extension of Chez Scheme that provides Erlang-inspired message passing.

Gambit and Scheme have been used for health applications. Here's one paper on that subject, from 2013: https://ecem.ece.ubc.ca/~cpetersen/lambdanative_icfp13.pdf

I would mention the use of GNU Guile to build Guix, which has had considerable uptake. Guile has been used to build other Linux programs.

Admittedly, Scheme isn't widely used. But impractical? No!

MattHeffron · 2 years ago
why Beckman Coulter Life Sciences supported the development of Swish, an extension of Chez Scheme

Having worked at Beckman¹ from 1978-2022, I strongly suspect that the support of a Scheme-based system was due to the educational background of several of the senior developers in that group of the Life Sciences software development team.

¹ Beckman Instruments -> SmithKline Beckman -> Beckman Instruments -> Beckman Coulter -> Beckman Coulter acquired by Danaher 2011 -> Beckman Coulter Capillary Electrophoresis business moved (2013) to AB Sciex (also a Danaher company)

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About
I started programming in Basic on a DECSystem-10 as a Freshman at Caltech in 1974. I quickly transitioned to assembly language, Fortran, and Pascal. As a summer job at JPL, I did analysis of fuel consumption for the Viking Mars Orbiter attitude control system. I also spent a summer doing O/S maintenance at Digital Equipment Corporation. After graduation, I started developing microprocessor development tools (e.g., cross-compiler, debugger) for Beckman Instruments, a scientific instrument company. I've worked on custom file systems, a real-time O/S for Z8000, Expert Systems (SpinPro™ & PepPro™), and internal and external networking support (I was their first webmaster). I've worked on their DNA analysis system software. I was the console/UI software architect for Ultracentrifuges and protein Capillary Electrophoresis (CE) systems. After 35 years, Danaher having acquired Beckman (now Beckman Coulter), transferred the CE group to become part of Sciex (2014), and I was on the software team that developed the new (9/2021) Sciex BioPhase Capillary Electrophoresis instrument. --- Finally, after 43 years, 7 months, and 19 days, I am retired.
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