LinguaBrowse (u/LinguaBrowse)

LinguaBrowse commented on The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade buttondown.com/whatever_j... · Posted by u/LinguaBrowse

serhalp · a month ago

> I really, really liked how Cargo did things (e.g. optional dependencies and rigid library structure) and it'd be incredible to have that for the JavaScript ecosystem.

FYI: https://thenewstack.io/vites-creator-on-a-unified-javascript...

LinguaBrowse · a month ago

I'm keeping my eye on Void0, yeah! If anyone can live up to such promises, it'll be them.

They'll have a tough job getting sticky ecosystems like React Native to adopt, but hope to see them make a compelling case for their stack.

LinguaBrowse commented on The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade buttondown.com/whatever_j... · Posted by u/LinguaBrowse

Imustaskforhelp · a month ago

This is the first time I have ever signed up for a newsletter and I did it without reading the HN comments or the fact that you wrote it or it took so long to write.

I really appreciate such deep dives, though I admittedly knew some of them because I was also obsessed much like you with the edge/ js engine space but still I learned a lot

I really liked reading through the blog. Please, take your time, rest and create such beautiful masterpieces in the future too, I would be waiting for them patiently!

Have a nice day.

LinguaBrowse · a month ago

Thank you for the kind words! Glad to get this one out of the way so that I can do some less ambitious articles for a change. But hope to make them good in their own way, too!

LinguaBrowse commented on The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade buttondown.com/whatever_j... · Posted by u/LinguaBrowse

righthand · a month ago

I was being sarcastic in my post. I find bragging about Javascript as a flourishing UI language omitting quite a bit about why.

LinguaBrowse · a month ago

Eh, writing is hard!

LinguaBrowse commented on The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade buttondown.com/whatever_j... · Posted by u/LinguaBrowse

dfee · a month ago

This article provides good insight on the boom, but leaves out any insight on the inevitable bust - not on JS per se, but the distinct runtimes.

Deno and Bun seem to be two highly competitive runtimes, each VC backed and positioned against each other, but the fairly tale of multiple winners seems unlikely in a world that favors power laws.

So then, how do others see these ecosystems surviving over the next decade? What are the canaries? And, how interoperable will our code be?

LinguaBrowse · a month ago

A very good thought! Deno and Bun have this formidable funding for sure, but Node.js is still innovating. Things like type-stripping and require(esm) come to mind. I think as long as big companies use it for Electron, Node.js will continue to get investment. Even if the investment were to dry up, experience teaches us that old tools die hard.

I would hope that interoperability goes up. The React Native community are closing in on support for Node-API, and with that maybe we can start sharing native code between desktop and mobile. The WinterCG effort is also going well.

As for canaries, I think sustainability is the main thing to look at. What is the surface area of this tool, how much expertise and effort does it take to maintain it, and who is invested in its survival? The more we can share common implementations like Intl and Temporal, the easier it is for smaller players to keep up. And of course, the more the big players try to diverge (looking at you, Chrome), the harder it gets.

LinguaBrowse commented on The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade buttondown.com/whatever_j... · Posted by u/LinguaBrowse

Tom1380 · a month ago

Why would someone use js on a microcontroller?

LinguaBrowse · a month ago

Could be to draw upon the existing JavaScript ecosystem, or could just be because JavaScript is the language the dev knows best! I feel really nerfed when I have to move from JavaScript to other languages, personally, even if I can get things done in C++ and other languages.

LinguaBrowse commented on The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade buttondown.com/whatever_j... · Posted by u/LinguaBrowse

nabwodahs · a month ago

I'm relatively new to the JS/TS space and I'm building a mobile app that needs to run on both platforms. Also building a back end for it using Deno.

I thought this article was highly informative and useful. Great job, and thanks!

LinguaBrowse · a month ago

Thank you! I'd tend to default to Expo if building a mobile app in JavaScript these days, but Capacitor, Tauri, and NativeScript are all good options too.

LinguaBrowse commented on The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade buttondown.com/whatever_j... · Posted by u/LinguaBrowse

ottod · a month ago

This article deserves to be the basis of a Wikipedia page. It is so well written and full of references. Congratulations to the author.

LinguaBrowse · a month ago

Thank you very much, really appreciate it! There's a respectable article on engines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JavaScript_engines), but indeed, no article on runtimes. I did feel that they were under-discussed compared to engines, though, with most analysis focusing on browsers and Node-alikes, so wanted to add something to the literature.

LinguaBrowse commented on The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade buttondown.com/whatever_j... · Posted by u/LinguaBrowse

asn0 · a month ago

Missed Nombas ScriptEase, a 90’s-era commercial runtime most famous for allowing JavaScript to operate the James Webb Telescope. http://brent-noorda.com/nombas/us/index.htm

LinguaBrowse · a month ago

Very cool, though when I was qualifying the scope for "the last decade", I was doing it by creation date rather than usage date, so I think I get a pass on this one!

LinguaBrowse commented on The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade buttondown.com/whatever_j... · Posted by u/LinguaBrowse

rorylaitila · a month ago

GraalVM/GraalJS is one I am most impressed with. It 'just works' and I've been able to integrate it into my java web applications easily. I mostly use JS in java to run handlebars.js and test JS code library that we use both on the server and the client.

LinguaBrowse · a month ago

I've heard nothing but high praise for GraalJS, yeah. I wonder whether it'd make any sense inside mobile apps – not due to any feature in mind, but simply out of interest because that's more the area I'm using JavaScript. The first-class interop with Java would be great for Android, though I wonder how cheap its interop with iOS (C-family languages) would be.

LinguaBrowse commented on The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade buttondown.com/whatever_j... · Posted by u/LinguaBrowse

leptons · a month ago

Did you consider things like JScript.NET? jsc.exe still comes with every Windows installation, and JScript still runs on IIS server (I have built a few things with it).

And what about things like Adobe Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere, and Illustrator which can run Javascript using either Extendscript in older versions or V8 in modern versions.

https://developer.adobe.com/xd/uxp/uxp/versions/

https://developer.adobe.com/photoshop/uxp/2022/ps_reference/

LinguaBrowse · a month ago

> Did you consider things like JScript.NET? jsc.exe still comes with every Windows installation, and JScript still runs on IIS server (I have built a few things with it).

I've not heard of any of these, wow – very cool that it's still bundled with Windows. I suspect that most things related to JScript wouldn't fit the scope of "the last decade", though? I tended to focus on creation date when deciding what should be in scope.

> And what about things like Adobe Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere, and Illustrator which can run Javascript using either Extendscript in older versions or V8 in modern versions.

Hmm, these may well qualify, you're right. Maybe I can add them to the addendum. I'd want to do a bit of research to understand their timeline and genealogy before including them, though. Wrists beginning to hurt for today now, though!

I do recall now that Adobe PDFs can run JavaScript. That would've been worth a mention for sure.