Dweller1622 (u/Dweller1622)

Dweller1622 commented on Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope wired.com/story/steam-itc... · Posted by u/6d6b73

Dweller1622 · a month ago

There's a number of things being said here, but much of it seems orthogonal to the original discussion and so I'm not going to address it.

Rather, if these characters aren't agents, I wonder where this leaves us re: sex positivity and "media [that] sexualizes women to a problematic degree." I don't think anything here tells me.

Dweller1622 · a month ago

I'm not the biggest fan of how I phrased some of this. Perhaps "and so I'm opting not to speak to those point."

Unfortunate how short the edit window for comments is on here. In either case, I suppose what I'm saying is clear enough.

Dweller1622 commented on Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope wired.com/story/steam-itc... · Posted by u/6d6b73

nosignono · a month ago

Sorry, I should have included -- in the context of the story. They are of course, not agents. They are fictional characters in a videogame.

But humans built them, and humans framed them in the camera. Those humans did have the choice to provide them with a setting in which the characters do or do not have that agency. Those humans chose whether or not to depict that agency.

Art reflects something about the creator, and often (but definitely not always) it's the values of the creator. If the authors choose to depict a world in which the character has no agency (within their setting), then perhaps the authors did not feel it was important or valuable to do so. Likewise, if the authors do depict a world in which the characters have agency, perhaps the authors feel it is valuable.

But even detached from authorial intent, art is subject to critique -- we can look at a piece of art, knowing nothing of the creator, and ask, "What themes do we draw here? What values does this work put forward?" Kotor 2 raises many interesting questions about pedigogy and teaching, for instance. One critical read is that it is a piece of art that believes you should absolutely question the motivations of the people who want to teach you. Another thing Kotor 2 seems to value is women can (or even should) be objectified (in the case of the handmaiden) or instrumentalized (in the case of Kreia).

None of the above requires you to recognize that the characters are agents within our world or have agency here.

Dweller1622 · a month ago

There's a number of things being said here, but much of it seems orthogonal to the original discussion and so I'm not going to address it.

Rather, if these characters aren't agents, I wonder where this leaves us re: sex positivity and "media [that] sexualizes women to a problematic degree." I don't think anything here tells me.

Dweller1622 commented on Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope wired.com/story/steam-itc... · Posted by u/6d6b73

nosignono · a month ago

In a videogame, I can think of some examples.

In Kotor 2, there's a character called "The Handmaiden", who will join your party if the player character is a male. She talks at great length about her situation and the decisions the player should make. She's depicted as a chaste, virginal religious character. But one of the very first things you can do with her when she joins your party is spar with her. And she strips into black lingerie to do so. Then she stays in black lingerie on your ship while you go and do other stuff.

She's clearly there as an object for the audience to drool over. It's given a very surface level justification ("we always spar with only our bodies"), but that justification is provided the instant before the player sees her in her undies. (Which, it's important to note, aren't like modest undergarments one might expect from a religious figure like this, but are specifically sexy underwear.)

Compare this to another Star Wars game, Jedi: Fallen Order, where the Night Sister Mirrin can becomes romantically involved with the player character. She has a well developed culture, and is given space to articulate her personality, choices, and opinions in a cogent way. She can be a romantic interest without being an object. She is as complex as all the other characters, and we don't see her positioned in sexy lingerie suddenly out of the blue.

I can come up with other examples if those aren't illustrative.

Dweller1622 · a month ago

No, that's fine, since I think it's not only the case that these are sufficient, but that I simply wasn't explicit enough in my rejection.

What I'm disputing is any application of objectification theory to media analysis wherein there are no actual agents involved. Neither The Handmaiden nor Night Sister Mirrin ever possessed any agency, nor were they deprived of it. There is simply no moral valence in how one treats or regards them.

The demand here is that they be treated as if they possessed agency. I see no reason or obligation to do so.

Dweller1622 commented on Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope wired.com/story/steam-itc... · Posted by u/6d6b73

nosignono · a month ago

It has to do with agency, primarily. Is the character in the media given the agency and depth necessary to support their sexual appetites? Or are they treated like an object by the camera, a 2 dimensional cutout whose purpose is only to be an object.

Compare, for example, Sex and the City, where 4 women were regularly engaged in a variety of sexual encounters and say, background dancers in a music video or advert that exist to appeal as objects to a male audience.

Dweller1622 · a month ago

I've definitely seen people say it's about agency, though exactly what they mean by that and why they think that matters tends to vary. That said, I suspect your response is in line with the person I was originally responding to.

In a different context I might be more sympathetic to this specific formulation of the concept since it's not always clear how much agency the background dancers in a music video or advert have. However, on the original topic of video games, the notion of "character agency" is rather pernicious.

Dweller1622 commented on Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope wired.com/story/steam-itc... · Posted by u/6d6b73

sjsdaiuasgdia · a month ago

It's interesting that you equate opposition to sexualization of women in media with sex negativity. One does not necessarily imply the other. You can be sex positive and believe that media sexualizes women to a problematic degree.

Dweller1622 · a month ago

Can you give me an example of this? As far as I understand it sex positivity doesn't seem to be concerned with "media sexualizing women" in and of itself. Consequently I'm not sure what "media [that] sexualizes women to a problematic degree" is or would even look like.

Dweller1622 commented on Ask HN: How do you prevent the impact of social media on your children? · Posted by u/justneedaname

scop · 8 months ago

Four thoughts:

1. I've developed a analog->digital path for my kids. Before they can get a music player, they get a CD player. Before they get video games, they get board games. And then, for video games, before they get Super Mario Odyssey they get the original Super Mario Bros. Each of these "first they get" is a long period. Years long. Give them something that has limitations so they can truly explore it. Find the nooks and crannies of something. Make up their own weird little things within that limitation. And then, back to music, I want my kids to know what a musical album is, know how to savor the highs and the lows, how sometimes certain tracks mean more to you based on your mood or life-stage, then just an endless playlist of newness.

2. The gorilla in the room is that most adults can barely handle online media.

3. The other gorilla in the room is porn. Again, see #2.

4. The classic philosophers placed Prudence as the queen of virtues. What is prudence? It is essentially the ability to grasp reality. Why did they say that was most important? Because you couldn't use any of the other virtues if your didn't have a good grasp of reality (e.g. fortitude would be foolhardiness if you ran into a ill-conceived death thinking you were being brave).

You need to make sure you and your kids are able to grasp reality, not just the appearance of it.

Dweller1622 · 8 months ago

What does it mean to "handle online media?" How is it you would say "most adults" fall short of this?

Dweller1622 commented on Web page annoyances that I don't inflict on you rachelbythebay.com/w/2025... · Posted by u/todsacerdoti

NotYourLawyer · 8 months ago

All the AI shit, plus this

https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1gvcqua/psa_the_ka...

Dweller1622 · 8 months ago

Product development disagreements are largely immaterial to me, though the discussion around their integrations with Yandex remind me of prior discussions around their integrations with Brave.

Either way, thanks for sharing.

Dweller1622 commented on Web page annoyances that I don't inflict on you rachelbythebay.com/w/2025... · Posted by u/todsacerdoti

NotYourLawyer · 8 months ago

Yes, it’s the individuals’ fault. Google, FB, and the rest need to spy on us! I feel just awful for those poor companies.

No. If your business model requires you to do evil things, your business should not exist.

Anyway, I do pay for services that provide value. I was a paying Kagi customer until recently, for example (not thrilled with the direction things are going there now though).

Dweller1622 · 8 months ago

What is the direction that things are going at Kagi now? What were they before?

Dweller1622 commented on We’re receiving about 3,000 reports/hour bsky.app/profile/safety.b... · Posted by u/Funes-

astrange · 10 months ago

Because the production process didn't involve abuse, but it's still illegal to produce them. The distribution of them does though.

Dweller1622 · 10 months ago

It’s not entirely clear what this is in reference to or what you’re attempting to say.

Dweller1622 commented on We’re receiving about 3,000 reports/hour bsky.app/profile/safety.b... · Posted by u/Funes-

Teever · 10 months ago

It's more nuanced than you think.

How do you feel about 17 year olds collecting nudes of 14 year olds to gawk at and bully them over?

Dweller1622 · 10 months ago

The supposition that this is “more nuanced than I think” given the particular example you’ve chosen strikes me as quite bizarre.

Does “17 year olds collecting nudes of 14 year olds to gawk at and bully them over” not strike you as abusive and/or exploitative? Because it certainly does to me.

I think you’ve chosen to interpret my post in an excessively literal manner (i.e only adults abuse or exploit teenagers) rather than the far more obvious alternatives I intended (e.g a 16 year old “sexting” their 17 year old partner).

Or, put another way, if I say we’re opposed to abuse and exploitation, and then you present me with a situation involving abuse and exploitation, of course I’d be opposed to it. Certainly you’re capable of figuring out this isn’t the sort of thing I was talking about.