Le Cunn's talk at Harvard informs how far behind he is.
How so?
Readit NewsCrackerNews commented on Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models" entropytown.com/articles/... · Posted by u/signa11
CrackerNews commented on Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models" entropytown.com/articles/... · Posted by u/signa11
The first link is about how philosophy and psychology is used to describe brain-cognitive behavior research, which has a limited explanatory capability compared to a hypothetical interpretation using its own vocabulary instead of those borrowed from other fields.
The second link is about an AI that detects consciousness in coma patients.
The third link is about how coma is associated with a low-complexity and high-predictability passive cortical state. Kickstarting the brain to a high-complexity and low-predictability state of cortical dynamics is a sign of recovery back to consciousness.
How does any of this support what you have said?
CrackerNews commented on Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models" entropytown.com/articles/... · Posted by u/signa11
I played with Marble yesterday, Fei-Fei/World Labs' new product.
It is the most impressed I've been with an AI experience since the first time I saw a model one-shot material code.
Sure, its an early product. The visual output reminds me a lot of early SDXL. But just look at what's happened to video in the last year and image in the last three. The same thing is going to happen here, and fast, and I see the vision for generative worlds for everything from gaming/media to education to RL/simulation.
Marble appears to be like HunyuanWorld to me, but this time they marketed it as a first step to a world model, and it has multimodal capabilities.
CrackerNews commented on Why Fei-Fei Li and Yann LeCun are both betting on "world models" entropytown.com/articles/... · Posted by u/signa11
I don’t know enough about this to be sure, but this feels like a white whale.
I think video and agentic and multimodal models have led to this point, but actually making a world model may provide to be long and difficult.
I feel LeCun is correct that LLMs as of now have limitations where it needs an architectural overhaul. LLMs now have a problem with context rot, and this would hamper with an effective world model if the world disintegrates and becomes incoherent and hallucinated over time.
It'd doubtful whether investors would be in for the long haul, which may explain the behavior of Sam Altman in seeking government support. The other approaches described in this article may be more investor friendly as there is a more immediate return with creating a 3D asset or a virtual simulation.
Are you for real dude? Lkms is a typo of LLMs. Semantic is only in task demands, and they’re variable. They extend limitlessly from action or spatial syntax, they don’t exist in words or images. You’ve been sold junk tech, read any Gary Marcus or Rodney Brooks and yes am enjoying the ride, we are the next stage - analog entertainment.
Laughing all the way at the AI clown show.
You cannot be serious if you expect people to mind read through your typos and make sense of them. Is this supposed to be a performative art piece to demonstrate your point? If you actually care about expressing your point to another person, then you should show some attention over how you present your responses so the other person can understand it.
Is "task demand" what the LLM would expect to do in order to respond to the user prompt? It seems incredulous that semantics would only exist here. As I have mentioned before, semantics is already embedded in the input and output for the LLM to implicitly discover and model and reason with.
https://arxiv.org/html/2507.05448v1 This paper is an interesting overview of semantics in LLMs. Here's an interesting quote, "Whether these LLMs exhibit semantic capabilities, is explored through the classical semantic theory which goes back to Frege and Russell. We show that the answer depends on how meaning is defined by Frege and Russell (and which interpretation one follows). If meaning is solely based on reference, that is, some referential capability, LLM-generated representations are meaningless, because the text-based LLMs representation do not directly refer to the world unless the reference is somehow indirectly induced. Also the notion of reference hinges on the notion of truth; ultimately it is the truth that determines the reference. If meaning however is associated with another kind of meaning such as Frege’s sense in addition to reference, it can be argued that LLM representations can carry that kind of semantics."
As for reference-based meaning reliant on truth, this was mentioned earlier in the paper, "An alternative to addressing the limitations of existing text-based models is the development of multimodal models, i.e., DL models that integrate various modalities such as text, vision, and potentially other modalities via sensory data. Large multimodal models (LMMs) could then ground their linguistic and semantic representations in non-textual representations like corresponding images or sensor data, akin to what has been termed sensorimotor grounding (Harnad, 1990). Note however, that such models would still not have direct access to the world but a mediated access: an access that is fundamentally task- driven and representational moreover. Also, as we will argue, the issue is rather that we need to ground sentences, rather than specific representations, because it is sentences that may refer to truth. But attaining the truth is not an easy task; ultimately, future LMMs will face the same difficulties as we do in determining truth."
In other words, this is the approach Fei-Fei Li and other multimodal models are using to create the world model.
You’ve just explained how neither images nor words cohere thought in LKNs Gaussian frontier or otherwise- they are wholly arbitrary. They reference nothing in and of themselves. And investors have been sold a bubble in every model so far. Enjoy the ride!
Humans have created semantic connections of images and words to thoughts, and LLMs learn from the implicit semantic meanings behind the words used in text. Humans after all have to communicate thoughts to each other. If you are correct, then communication would not exist and we would still be apes.
For example, "LKNs Gaussian frontier" is another random phrase you have pulled out as if you are an LLM hallucinating something.
The bubble is in whether the investors will get their return on time. This is orthogonal to the underlying technology. Investor interests are not in progressing technology but to get a profit. Hope you enjoy the ride too because this is going to affect all of us.
Your intellectual insecurity doesn’t mean I offer due diligence for existing information, nor does it give you any protocol to shift apologies especially since we evaluate software for special effects in high budget streaming. And none of our research indicates LLMs RL or frontier approaches will work in spatially specific ways. It’s a wash, we can see it.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cXtU97SCjxaHCrf8UVeQGYaj...
You appear to be using random words and phrases to intentionally obfuscate the lack of substance in your responses.
There is a baseline expectation of how quotes and citations are supposed to work within Western intellectual circles. The fact that you do not know them and refuse to accept it means either you are not familiar with Western academia or you are an intellectually dishonest Internet troll or an LLM bot.
Spatial reasoning and world models are a research topic because elements of them were found in video and agentic models, and investors want to further refine either of them.
I do not have the time to read through this entire Google doc, but from what I have skimmed, I can see that the most substantial critiques are from academia being honest of the current state of AI and its limitations. That is fine.
However, the opening paragraphs aren't impressive. Language is arbitrary, yes, but they must also be intelligible by other humans. It is like a canvas to pattern match and create all sorts of inductive reasonings. There isn't much to explain how pattern matching math would be inherently incapable of pattern matching the written language. This reads like a basic understanding of postmodernist philosophy as if it is proof of math becoming a failure when applied to a socially constructed reality. However, philosophy and other social sciences do not surrender and give up as if their fields are fundamentally flawed. They make do and continue matching patterns to make observations of social reality.
The burden is ultimately on you to prove that the limitations of current AI/LLM cannot be overcome or that there is something that cannot make world models or spatial reasoning possible. Simply having a mountain of text to read is not an argument. There has to be some summary or point that can be used at the thrust of your position. As they say, brevity is the soul of wit.
Take great offense at being called a bot, especially considering any glance can spot my numerous typos. And the weakness of your search capability: that quote is from a discussion of Ev’s following the pub of this paper
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4874898/
And btw, that’s not a blanket statement that’s an empirical statement that wipes away quite a bit of LLM relevance. I’d say it destroys the approach.
Do the research. And an apology is in good order.
That exact quote does not appear in the paper. You cannot attack me for your lack of due diligence.
This paper does little to dismiss LLMs. LLMs can use a different medium than text and that would not take away from its underlying mathematical models based on neuroscience. LLMs only understand language representations implicitly through statistical analysis, and that may instead show a commonality with how the human brain thinks as written in this paper.
I will not apologize for how you keep pushing an agenda despite how poorly supported it is. I have tried to be intellectually honest about the state of the industry and its flaws. I would implore you to instead do the research about LLMs so you can better refine your critique of them.
It’s not a keyword, it’s the seat of intelligence. What coders don’t grasp is nothing g related to symbols metaphors words language manifests as consciousness and or intel. Your field is a wash.
“We refute (based on empirical evidence) claims that humans use linguistic representations to think.” Ev Fedorenko Language Lab MIT
When I look up that quote, it leads back to Hacker News comments. It is also a strange way to make a citation. You make blanket statements that are easily argued against, and now you respond with this nonsense. I accuse you of being an LLM bot.
This does not necessarily disprove the existence of an world model, and these papers are not directly dealing with the concept. As shown with how LLMs work, the world model (and how the brain thinks) may be more implicit rather than explicit philosophical/psychological constructs within the neural net of the brain.
As opposed to neural nets and LLMs, neuroscientists and the like have no way of taking out a human brain and hooking it up to a computer to run experiments on what our neurons are doing. These software are the next best thing at the moment of determining what neurons can do and how they work.
Perhaps there is a dialectical synthesis that can be made of your position that I interpret to be something like "there does not exist discrete cartesian states within the brain" with how neural nets learn concepts implicitly through statistics.