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CTmystery commented on Police in Austin, San Francisco skirt facial recognition ban   washingtonpost.com/busine... · Posted by u/rntn
CTmystery · 2 years ago
Again, more sophistry. Take the argument head on. Do you believe the cops are breaking the law, yes or no?
CTmystery · 2 years ago
Thanks for all the downvotes with no cogent argument against my points. I will explain it very simply why you are engaging in nothing more than sophistry:

- My original post puts forth an interesting double standard, where when a non-cop finds a workaround to achieve their aim it's considered a 'hack' and a sign of being 'relentlessly resourceful' (a fundable, valued attribute!). When a cop uses a workaround to achieve their aim, which is to find criminals, it's considered grounds for outrage.

- Rather than engage on this point, you put forth analogies that don't address the hypocrisy, but rather use fine sounding language (relativity!) to make a completely different point that all laws should be treated in the spirit of how they were written, and not by what they actually say. And this takes some thinking on the reader's part to get there, as it's diverged significantly from the thrust of the first post, which, again, was to point out an interesting double standard.

- I try to get clarification on your now changed point

- You double down on the speed analogy, even further removed, with whataboutism and the logic that 'everyone is breaking the technical law so we need wide latitude in how laws are interpreted'. It was so far from my original observation that I don't even know why I responded. Perhaps you were trolling, IDK.

It's also interesting to me that my initial post got a couple quick upvotes and then got buried 5 min later. I don't claim foul play or anything. Just interesting. Kinda reminds me of the post against applying to YC that rocketed to the front page and then got flagged for removal. It's quite amazing how hiveminded this place is. And you know, I really have to question the value that I've gotten from this site in 15 years of reading it. I am positive that my life would be richer without it. So so long. This last part has nothing to do with you, just doing some reflecting. I'll see myself out.

CTmystery commented on Police in Austin, San Francisco skirt facial recognition ban   washingtonpost.com/busine... · Posted by u/rntn
AnthonyMouse · 2 years ago
> Your first bit isn't an example of a legal workaround, it's an example of attempted sophistry for illegal behavior.

This is exactly what the police are doing.

> Are you implying that the cops in this case broke the law?

Are you implying that it's illegal to drive with the flow of traffic? That seems like an unreasonable interpretation, it would imply that everybody is constantly breaking the law! The interpretation where the speed limit is relative to other traffic makes much more sense, because the main issue is speed differences. If everybody is driving 70 that is much safer than some people driving 25 and some people driving 115, so the law sets a maximum speed difference, e.g. if the speed limit is 55 and some people are driving 40 then you could drive up to 95 but 100 is too fast. This is clearly much more in line with observed behavior.

Anybody can come up with reasoning to justify whatever. You can say that we should follow the letter of the law and let people get away with it if they can find a loophole, or that we should have judges reinterpret what the law actually says to try to get the result the legislature intended, but don't try to say we should do different ones for different people.

CTmystery · 2 years ago
I'll also add that I think it's a bad law if everyone breaks it, yet police look the other way. The beauty of a democratic republic is our elected leaders can change laws and pass new ones! So, just like this case where the people have a choice in what cops can do with surveillance tech, the people also have a choice in what our highways are limited to. The ideas are all really quite simple, and you don't have to go reaching for arguments about Einstein's theories to engage with them.
CTmystery commented on Police in Austin, San Francisco skirt facial recognition ban   washingtonpost.com/busine... · Posted by u/rntn
AnthonyMouse · 2 years ago
> Your first bit isn't an example of a legal workaround, it's an example of attempted sophistry for illegal behavior.

This is exactly what the police are doing.

> Are you implying that the cops in this case broke the law?

Are you implying that it's illegal to drive with the flow of traffic? That seems like an unreasonable interpretation, it would imply that everybody is constantly breaking the law! The interpretation where the speed limit is relative to other traffic makes much more sense, because the main issue is speed differences. If everybody is driving 70 that is much safer than some people driving 25 and some people driving 115, so the law sets a maximum speed difference, e.g. if the speed limit is 55 and some people are driving 40 then you could drive up to 95 but 100 is too fast. This is clearly much more in line with observed behavior.

Anybody can come up with reasoning to justify whatever. You can say that we should follow the letter of the law and let people get away with it if they can find a loophole, or that we should have judges reinterpret what the law actually says to try to get the result the legislature intended, but don't try to say we should do different ones for different people.

CTmystery · 2 years ago
Again, more sophistry. Take the argument head on. Do you believe the cops are breaking the law, yes or no?
CTmystery commented on Police in Austin, San Francisco skirt facial recognition ban   washingtonpost.com/busine... · Posted by u/rntn
AnthonyMouse · 2 years ago
> Funny how when one of us finds a workaround it's regarded as a hack and clever and a sign of how talented and 'relentlessly resourceful' we are.

Indeed. Which is why when somebody gets pulled over for speeding and points out that because of the theory of relativity speed limits are meaningless without a frame of reference, but the law doesn't explicitly specify one, and laws are required to be interpreted most favorably to the accused in a criminal case, the police always let them go instead of giving them a ticket.

> It's cops trying to catch criminals.

Corporations dumping mercury in the river are "businesses trying to create jobs". Muggers are "disadvantaged youths trying to put food on the table". They're supposed to do the second thing but not in that way.

CTmystery · 2 years ago
Your first bit isn't an example of a legal workaround, it's an example of attempted sophistry for illegal behavior. Are you implying that the cops in this case broke the law? I don't think that is clear.

Cops should be able to do what is within the law, and if we don't like that then we should change the laws.

CTmystery commented on Police in Austin, San Francisco skirt facial recognition ban   washingtonpost.com/busine... · Posted by u/rntn
Bostonian · 2 years ago
I'm glad that the man 'charging toward someone with a knife' was apprehended with facial recognition technology. In general I favor its use for catching violent criminals.

'Austin police officers have received the results of at least 13 face searches from a neighboring police department since the city’s 2020 ban — and have appeared to get hits on some of them, according to documents obtained by The Post through public records requests and sources who shared them on the condition of anonymity. “That’s him! Thank you very much,” one Austin police officer wrote in response to an array of photos sent to him by an officer in Leander, Tex., who ran a facial recognition search, documents show. The man displayed in the pictures, John Curry Jr., was later charged with aggravated assault for allegedly charging toward someone with a knife, and is currently in jail awaiting trial. Curry’s attorney declined to comment.'

CTmystery · 2 years ago
I am also in favor of catching violent criminals. And as such I join you in the downvote fest. Of course, no one puts forth a cogent argument about why catching violent criminals with this technology is bad. Can it be abused? Yes. Was it abused here? No. Luckily, we live in a democracy where we make the rules. If we want a policy that law enforcement can't buy these systems, make that the law. If we want a policy where law enforcement can't use these systems in any capacity, then make that the law.
CTmystery commented on Police in Austin, San Francisco skirt facial recognition ban   washingtonpost.com/busine... · Posted by u/rntn
phyzome · 2 years ago
What matters is whether the "workaround" is harming people.
CTmystery · 2 years ago
The article mentions a guy "charged with aggravated assault for allegedly charging toward someone with a knife". I'd say getting that guy into trial is good for NOT harming people
CTmystery commented on Police in Austin, San Francisco skirt facial recognition ban   washingtonpost.com/busine... · Posted by u/rntn
CTmystery · 2 years ago
Funny how when one of us finds a workaround it's regarded as a hack and clever and a sign of how talented and 'relentlessly resourceful' we are. When a cop does it, oh god no the sky is falling. Asking a neighboring dept for an assist is within the law and from this own reporting not abused at all. It was used "at least 5 times" (ok, that is lazy, what is the upper bound?) and "no matches were returned". It's not some crazy surveillance state. It's cops trying to catch criminals. Which we need
CTmystery commented on Cold showers on overhyped topics (2017)   github.com/hwayne/awesome... · Posted by u/troupo
CTmystery · 2 years ago
I would like to see one on all Apple's latest advancements. The hype: "SwiftUI, async/await and actors, and declarative animations make building a robust app easier than ever". The shower: "Imperative programming is really easy for our little brains to handle. UIKit, Core Animation, and GCD are easier to work with and reason about"
CTmystery commented on Things are about to get worse for generative AI   garymarcus.substack.com/p... · Posted by u/eddyzh
CTmystery · 2 years ago
> My guess is that none of this can easily be fixed. Systems like DALL-E and ChatGPT are essentially black boxes. GenAI systems don’t give attribution to source materials because at least as constituted now, they can’t.

Is it necessary to fix in the model itself? It seems a gate in the post processing pipeline that checks for copyright infringement could work, provided they can create another model that identifies copyrighted work (solving the problems of AI with more AI :/)

CTmystery commented on The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement   theverge.com/2023/12/27/2... · Posted by u/ssgodderidge
logicchains · 2 years ago
The vast majority of quality art and is produced by people who do it because they want to create art, not for money, and most artists earn little.
CTmystery · 2 years ago
I'm not sure that's actually true, even though we hear it often. The artists I know (about a dozen) are all trying to figure out how to make _more_ money from their art so that they can continue making their art

u/CTmystery

KarmaCake day563December 25, 2019View Original