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ActivePattern commented on Classical statues were not painted horribly   worksinprogress.co/issue/... · Posted by u/bensouthwood
numlocked · 2 months ago
Good read! The idea that these marvels of artistry were painted like my 10th birthday at the local paint-your-own-pottery store always seemed incongruous, at best.

> Why, then, are the reconstructions so ugly?

> ...may be that they are hampered by conservation doctrines that forbid including any feature in a reconstruction for which there is no direct archaeological evidence. Since underlayers are generally the only element of which traces survive, such doctrines lead to all-underlayer reconstructions, with the overlayers that were obviously originally present excluded for lack of evidence.

That seems plausible -- and somewhat reasonable! To the credit of academics, they seems aware of this (according to the article):

> ‘reconstructions can be difficult to explain to the public – that these are not exact copies, that we can never know exactly how they looked’.

ActivePattern · 2 months ago
I still don't understand is why they don't even make an attempt to apply overlayers, when (as the author notes) there is ample secondary evidence that it would be present. It's not like there isn't already some element of inference and "filling in the blanks" when reconstructing how something was painted from the scant traces of paint that survived.
ActivePattern commented on Classical statues were not painted horribly   worksinprogress.co/issue/... · Posted by u/bensouthwood
Geonode · 2 months ago
I will die on this hill, because I'm right. Painters put on the first layer in saturated colors like this, then add detail, highlight and shadow. The base layer stuck to the statues, and the rest was washed away.

This whole thing just won't go away because many people are operating outside their area of expertise on this subject.

Painters layer paint, starting with a saturated base color. These archaeologists are simply looking at the paint that was left in the crevices.

ActivePattern · 2 months ago
I assume you didn't read the article, since that's their exact point...

"Since underlayers are generally the only element of which traces survive, such doctrines lead to all-underlayer reconstructions, with the overlayers that were obviously originally present excluded for lack of evidence."

ActivePattern commented on This is not the future   blog.mathieui.net/this-is... · Posted by u/ericdanielski
BloondAndDoom · 2 months ago
I understand artists etc. Talking about AI in a negative sense, because they don’t really get it completely, or just it’s against their self interest which means they find bad arguments to support their own interest subconsciously.

However tech people who thinks AI is bad, or not inevitable is really hard to understand. It’s almost like Bill Gates saying “we are not interested in internet”. This is pretty much being against the internet, industrialization, print press or mobile phones. The idea that AI is anything less than paradigm shifting, or even revolutionary is weird to me. I can only say being against this is either it’s self-interest or not able to grasp it.

So if I produce something art, product, game, book and if it’s good, and if it’s useful to you, fun to you, beautiful to you and you cannot really determine whether it’s AI. Does it matter? Like how does it matter? Is it because they “stole” all the art in the world. But somehow if a person “influenced” by people, ideas, art in less efficient way almost we applaud that because what else, invent the wheel again forever?

ActivePattern · 2 months ago
> I can only say being against this is either it’s self-interest or not able to grasp it.

So we're just waving away the carbon cost, centralization of power, privacy fallout, fraud amplification, and the erosion of trust in information? These are enormous society-level effects (and there are many more to list).

Dismissing AI criticism as simply ignorance says more about your own.

ActivePattern commented on Show HN: Gemini Pro 3 imagines the HN front page 10 years from now   dosaygo-studio.github.io/... · Posted by u/keepamovin
articlepan · 2 months ago
I agree with your first paragraph, but not your second. Models can still hallucinate when temperature is set to zero (aka when we always choose the highest probability token from the model's output token distribution).

In my mind, hallucination is when some aspect of the model's response should be consistent with reality but is not, and the reality-inconsistent information is not directly attributable or deducible from (mis)information in the pre-training corpus.

While hallucination can be triggered by setting the temperature high, it can also be the result of many possible deficiencies in model pre- and post- training that result in the model outputting bad token probability distributions.

ActivePattern · 2 months ago
I've never heard the caveat that it can't be attributable to misinformation in the pre-training corpus. For frontier models, we don't even have access to the enormous training corpus, so we would have no way of verifying whether or not it is regurgitating some misinformation that it had seen there or whether it is inventing something out of whole cloth.
ActivePattern commented on OpenAI needs to raise at least $207B by 2030   ft.com/content/23e54a28-6... · Posted by u/akira_067
benterix · 3 months ago
> They can just integrate whatever improvements the actually existing AI models offer into their other products.

If this is what users actually want.

ActivePattern · 3 months ago
Yes, as is implied by the word "improvements"
ActivePattern commented on The problem with farmed seafood   nautil.us/the-problem-wit... · Posted by u/dnetesn
yesfitz · 3 months ago
I hesitate to use the word "quibbling" now, but it seems like a poor use of time to compare beef when even the most environmentally-friendly beef is multiple times worse than alternatives.

I think this harm-reduction approach might make more sense from a governmental policy perspective, but is otherwise silly for us to take as individuals because we have such comparatively little influence over each other's choices. I wouldn't waste that small influence encouraging someone to make a slightly less bad choice.

The comparison of food to transportation is a bad one. Nutrients are nutrients, and everything else is personal pleasure. In other words, you can easily hit your same macros by replacing animal products with plant products without even having to change grocery stores. You cannot easily transport a mattress on a bicycle instead of a car.

ActivePattern · 3 months ago
You started this by objecting to my wording ("among the most") when I said fish/chicken are the most sustainable meat options. They are, by a wide margin. Beef’s footprint is roughly 10× higher, so swapping a beef meal for chicken or fish cuts ~90% of those emissions. That’s not a "slightly less bad choice".

Calling harm reduction "silly" because tofu exists just shifts the target. We can hold two thoughts at once: (1) plant-heavy diets are best, and (2) for the vast majority who aren’t going vegan tomorrow, steering from beef to chicken/fish dramatically reduces damage right now. Dismissing that because it’s not maximal purity guarantees we leave real cuts on the table.

ActivePattern commented on The problem with farmed seafood   nautil.us/the-problem-wit... · Posted by u/dnetesn
yesfitz · 3 months ago
It's not "quibbling" to correct your mischaracterization of the truth.

If you'll forgive me borrowing your logic: "I'm not saying that people should eat beef, but many people do eat beef, so it's worth comparing which beef sources are better than others."

Plant-based diets are a very good answer to the problems caused by animal agriculture. If someone takes issue with that answer, I'd need a better reason than their personal pleasure to take them seriously in the conversation.

ActivePattern · 3 months ago
I agree it’s worth comparing beef sources! That was my point about within-category differences and harm reduction. Saying "tofu is cleaner" doesn’t make beef comparisons pointless - just like the existence of bicycles doesn’t make car fuel economy comparisons pointless. We should compare across categories and within them, so people who aren’t switching today still choose the lower-impact option.
ActivePattern commented on The problem with farmed seafood   nautil.us/the-problem-wit... · Posted by u/dnetesn
yesfitz · 3 months ago
"...among the most..."

According to your source, there are 15 sources of protein that emit less greenhouse gases (GHGs) per 100g of protein than farmed fish, including poultry and eggs, and 16 sources that emit more (including items that are not known for their protein content like coffee, apples, and dark chocolate). Being highly charitable, farmed fish is squarely in the middle.

Additionally, farmed fish emits twice the GHGs of tofu, and almost 22 times that of nuts. So just comparing placements on the list paints a misleading picture.

As for "not willing to go full vegetarian": you may as well say "not willing to stop eating fish", because they are equally unserious limitations when discussing these topics. "Not being willing" is only a slightly more mature version of a child saying "I don't want to".

ActivePattern · 3 months ago
I don't think it's "unserious" to recognize that >85% of the world's population eats meat.

If you're quibbling about wording, all I meant was: farmed fish and chicken are among the most sustainable meat sources.

I'm not making a statement that people should eat meat, but many people do eat meat, so it's worth comparing which meat sources are better than others. I think it would be great if more people knew that beef produces 10x the greenhouse gases than chicken/fish do.

ActivePattern commented on The problem with farmed seafood   nautil.us/the-problem-wit... · Posted by u/dnetesn
kakacik · 3 months ago
Farmed seafood is among the worst garbage you can eat. Tons of antibiotics, growth hormones, fish are fed utter cheap junk so ie salmon meat has more like pork composition than a wild salmon, shrimp are even worse. If you ever saw a shrimp 'factory' and grow pond/cage and its surroundings in a typical 3rd world country where most come from, you wouldn't eat it for a long time if ever again. Literally nothing lives around those places.

Good in theory, horrible in practice.

ActivePattern · 3 months ago
That take’s outdated. In the US/EU, routine antibiotics in fish farming are banned [1]. Growth hormones aren’t used in edible fish. Farmed salmon’s feed changed (more plant oils), but it still delivers high omega-3s and usually less mercury than wild [2].

[1] FDA “Approved Drugs for Use in Aquaculture” — https://www.fda.gov/media/80297/download

[2] Jensen et al., Nutrients 2020 — https://doi.org/10.3390/nu12123665

ActivePattern commented on The problem with farmed seafood   nautil.us/the-problem-wit... · Posted by u/dnetesn
Faelon · 3 months ago
The easiest solution: Don't eat fish. Or our oceans may never recover.
ActivePattern · 3 months ago
On the contrary, farmed fish is among the most sustainable protein sources for those not willing to go full vegetarian [1]

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-per-protein-poore

u/ActivePattern

KarmaCake day244June 27, 2019View Original