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AJTSheppard commented on Show HN: My pocket device to mine cryptocurrencies using solar ("Pocket Miner")    · Posted by u/AJTSheppard
tromp · 8 months ago
How many lifetimes will it take to recover the $167 cost of the miner, assuming you get the 700mW of solar power for 8 hours a day, mining the most profitable cryptocurrency as of today?
AJTSheppard · 8 months ago
I suggest you read the FAQs and Pocket Manifesto. It's not a purely economic proposition. Not all cryptos are PoW. And, like compound interest, things accrue over time. Lastly, it depends on your future view of where crypto is going versus the US dollar. In some ways the Pocket Miner can be thought of as a device for converting US dollars to crypto in a friendly way; do that conversion now (and over time) and perhaps benefit later? It depends on your view of where crypto is going.
AJTSheppard commented on Show HN: Satoshi9000 analog BTC key generator (mechanical)    · Posted by u/AJTSheppard
TacticalCoder · a year ago
Virtually everybody is using the BIP-39 / BIP-44 protocols to derive addresses from a 256 bit (or 128 bit) key.

If you have a way to generate 256 bit, you have a way to generate a Bitcoin (or Ethereum or whatever) wallet.

Some people trust their hardware wallet to generate a random 256 bit / 24 words (each word is 11 bit as the dictionary contains 2048 words: 24 words is 264 bits, 256 bit + 8 bit of checksum).

But others do it manually, in an analog way.

One way to do it to throw a 16-sided dice repeatedly: that's a good source of entropy. That's entirely analog.

BIP-39 has a checksum (4 bit for 128 bit keys and 8 bit for 256 bit keys), so you'll need some code to either find or verify the checksum. To do that people are typically going to use a fully offline/airgapped computer: for example an old desktop, without any Wifi capability, booted without any harddisk, from a Linux Live CD (I know, I know: you'll read their key from the electrical activity by tapping the electrical circuit outside their house or by firing a laser at their window, so it's not "fully airgapped": bla bla bla).

From that single 256 bit number you can derive wallets for all the coins you want.

Once people have generated their key by throwing dice, they'll typically store their key behind a HSM, on a hardware wallet. And the private key never leaves the hardware wallet (but can be used to sign transactions). And a "paper" copy of the key typically also lives in the analog world (and listen to Gandalf: "keep it safe", "keep it secure").

The video is definitely cool but creating a key in the real (non digital) world is something quite common.

AJTSheppard · a year ago
Truth be told, that is exactly how I used to generate my crypto keys.

I would take 256 quarters (sometimes fewer and accept that some might be tossed more than once) and toss them to get ones and zeroes. Tedious, and somewhat error prone (see below). Then do the calculations by hand, also somewhat tedious and error prone.

There is plenty of research that demonstrates that humans are poor at tossing coins in an unbiased way. People cheat (especially if money hangs on the outcome) and people are also lazy, so that the first toss is vigorous and diligent, and so the coin tumbles end-over-end many times before coming to rest for a result (heads or tails), but after several hundred tosses, the vigor and diligence are gone and the coin barely leaves their hand.

Part of my motivation in building the Satoshi9000 was to automate this manual process and at the same time take out human bias. Which is to say, automate away the human part and automate the math of key generation. But at the same time, make it secure by having the machine air-gapped (that is, no connection to the outside world beyond a power cord) with the ability to walk-away with anything that might leave a clue as to how, why and when the machine was last used; what I refer to as "walk-away randomness" in the video. After removing the coins, SD cards (OS and user programs) and printout, what is left is little more than a motor and some wires. An adversary looking to recover your keys would have no clue as to whether the machine had ever been used, yet alone what for. Maybe it was simply used to generate a quick-pick for tomorrow's drawing of Powerball. You would have now way of knowing.

(As an aside, you could even walk away with the remaining paper roll from the printer, so an adversary would not even know how much had been printed! Also, the printer uses no ink and has no buffer/memory, which was a deliberate choice in the design.)

AJTSheppard commented on Show HN: Satoshi9000 analog BTC key generator (mechanical)    · Posted by u/AJTSheppard
imglorp · a year ago
At 5:44, the vid shows a webcam facing up to photograph the bottom of the coin/die through the shaker window. I guess there's some CV to read the item.
AJTSheppard · a year ago
Correct.
AJTSheppard commented on Show HN: Satoshi9000 analog BTC key generator (mechanical)    · Posted by u/AJTSheppard
ajay-d · a year ago
Are these like public randomness beacons? NIST[0] and Cloudflare[1] have them. I guess use cases are lotteries that are publicly verifiable, election auditing...

[0] https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beac...

[1] https://drand.love/

[2] https://blog.cloudflare.com/league-of-entropy/

AJTSheppard · a year ago
Election auditing.

That's a quite interesting idea. I will put more thought into that.

Thanks!

AJTSheppard commented on Show HN: Satoshi9000 analog BTC key generator (mechanical)    · Posted by u/AJTSheppard
nodlek · a year ago
People are missing the point that it is creative and gets the job done, conversation pieces can go a long way.
AJTSheppard · a year ago
This comment brought a smile to my face.

When I showed the machine to my son, Nate, a mechanical engineer, he thought it looked like something from a 1950's sci-fi movie like "Forbidden Planet". Back then, plastics were high-tech and new, and with the acrylic domes, the Satoshi9000 would not look out of place on the set of that movie.

He suggested that every coffee table should have one!

AJTSheppard commented on Show HN: Satoshi9000 analog BTC key generator (mechanical)    · Posted by u/AJTSheppard
rtkwe · a year ago
I think the cloudflare video wall is a more practical way to mass generate entropy but this is suitably madcap I enjoy it. There are also other existing methods but they're not as... clearly demonstrable... as this like is used in existing hardware TRNGs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_random_number_generat...

AJTSheppard · a year ago
The case I would make for the Satoshi9000 is that its method of generating randomness is intuitively understood by anyone from five years old to ninety-five years old, technical or non-technical.

I think it would be a stretch to think you could pull a random person off the street, point to a wall of lava lamps, and ask "do you see the randomness, how does it work?" Whereas, I think if you pull a random person off the street, let them watch the Satoshi9000 do its thing, and ask "do you see the randomness, how does it work?" you might get an answer that makes sense.

That, in a nutshell, is the value proposition behind the Satoshi9000.

AJTSheppard commented on Show HN: Satoshi9000 analog BTC key generator (mechanical)    · Posted by u/AJTSheppard
theideaofcoffee · a year ago
Love it. I wonder what the distribution of rolls/tosses for this looks like. This also reminds me of an automated dice roller thingy that someone built with a hopper of dice, a conveyor to bring the dice to the top of a ramp and ocr to record all of the rolls, a "Dice-o-matic" [0]. And a vidja of it in action [1].

[0] http://gamesbyemail.com/news/diceomatic

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n8LNxGbZbs

AJTSheppard · a year ago
On an historical note, ever since dice and coins have been used by humans (thousands of years), there have been efforts to "automate" their tossing in an effort to make the toss or roll fair (unbiased). See, for example, the Vettweiss-Froitzheim Dice Tower, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vettweiss-Froitzheim_Dice_Towe...

The reason is simple. Humans are terrible sources of randomness. Especially true if money hangs on the outcome!

There are two principal components for bias of a coin or die toss/roll: 1) the coin or die itself (manufacturing defects, etc.), which if it exists is typically minuscule, and 2) the act of tossing or rolling by a human (a twist of the wrist, or a flick of the fingers), whose bias is enormous and which, as I say, is particularly pronounced if money hangs on the outcome.

The Satoshi9000 solves problem 2, the human element, by removing the human from the process altogether. Other than to press the "run" button.

AJTSheppard commented on Show HN: Satoshi9000 analog BTC key generator (mechanical)    · Posted by u/AJTSheppard
guenthert · a year ago
I love the well executed combination of (electro-)mechanics and computing. Rare to see talent in both combined in one person. The printing of the result in the end is particularly charming.

Not sure, if there would ever be a mass market for such, but I can totally see it (or something similar) generating lotto numbers live on t.v. .

AJTSheppard · a year ago
I would argue that the future belongs to people who can actually make useful things! If we revert to cave dwelling (which perhaps we might given the way things are going!), then being able to flake flint tools might be a far better skill to have than being a social media "influencer".

And today, most physical products require a combination of mechanical, electronic and programming skills. Fortunately, I have all three. I suggest people likewise diligently acquire all three.

It's also fun to build useful machines.

I worked in banking all over the globe for 30 years. I did not acquire my useful skills in that profession. Money yes. Useful skills no.

I acquired my mechanical/electronics/software skills long, long ago while a postgraduate in experimental physicist at Oxford, building space instrumentation. Why did I go into banking then, you ask? Poverty is the answer!

u/AJTSheppard

KarmaCake day42October 25, 2010
About
My name is Andrew Sheppard (ajtsheppard@gmail.com / https://andrewsheppard.com/about.html). I worked in banking and finance across the globe for 30 years and I now design and build what I hope are useful machines.
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