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Posted by u/gillyb 20 days ago
Ask HN: Do you think differently about working on open source these days?
Wondering if anyone here has changed their opinion on open sourcing their projects or contributing to open source now that LLM's are a thing...

I don't know yet what I think, but my latest side project I decided to create privately on github.

data-ottawa · 20 days ago
No, when I licensed my open source code as MIT I essentially stated to not care what happens to it.

I am bothered that I was able to reproduce code from my blog through an LLM (suggesting exact same default values). That was not licensed for permissive use.

I still contribute to open source because I still use a lot of it. In my mind I owe it to the community to contribute back, and if nobody did the same my workflow would be a lot worse.

tcdent · 20 days ago
I owe my entire 20 year career to open source, so if anything, I plan to increase the number of contributions I make as time goes on; it's one of the few areas in life where I feel indebted.
zvr · 20 days ago
Same (although my history with FOSS is 40 years).
ProofHouse · 20 days ago
Same
nosignono · 20 days ago
Open Source was always a collection of anarchist experiments in different ways of working. It turns out that it's quite effective and popular, and people will organize themselves naturally around projects they find interesting.

That said, capital has always been squeezing open source. Whether it was the Embrace; Extend; Extinguish mantra of Microsoft, Amazon's hosting of Open Source in AWS to control the market for it, or Oracle's litigiousness about trademarks and patents. To say nothing of all the companies who profit from it and give nothing back in return.

LLMs being trained on Open Source software is nothing new with respect to capital attempting to consume it and profit from it but not giving anything back in exchange.

So no, I'm not worried, I'm not going to change anything. I expect maybe we see a license that says you cannot use it as AI training material at some point in the future, and the lawyers will fight over that for a decade or two.

lordkrandel · 20 days ago
Aaahahah people tend to forget that GPL exists. If they use your software to build another, then you can sue and make all their software opensource. Also, you dont have to use github where your source is easily pray of LLM. You can host your own.
gillyb · 20 days ago
I don't think GPL licenses really stop companies from scraping the code and using it to train their LLM's. Also, how would you prove they actually used your code ?
lordkrandel · 20 days ago
Nothing. You protect yourself with hiding your code away from Github. Anyway, when software will be produced WITH LLMs, that will inevitably repeat your code, then you will sue. Opensource is MADE to be copied. It's meant to be. You WANT it. You just want it to benefit EVERYONE and not corporations who make money out of it, and there are defenses to that. Opensource, free software, is a philosophy, not a business opportunity per se. Business is just tangential to it.
williamstein · 20 days ago
I strongly agree. LLM’s have eviscerated the core idea and motivation behind using the GPL, in a way I didn’t at all see coming. We’ve published a lot of very unique GPL code (eg in sagemath), which anybody can now easily “regenerate” as part of some other closed (or open) software using an LLM. They wouldn’t even know they are creating a derived work of our GPL code. I have had to come to terms with this...
stavros · 20 days ago
Do companies train LLMs with anything any more? All the code we write now is written by LLMs, they can't really train on that.
fsflover · 20 days ago
And AGPL is even better.
koolba · 20 days ago
An oft overlooked part of being involved in open source is the networking and mentorship, both technical and personal. Being a part of one or more well run projects lets you interact with some incredibly smart people discussing technical topics well outside your day job. Not all of that will pan out to something directly useful, but over time it adds up to both a wider skillset at actual development and dealing with a distributed team. The evolution of your written communication skills alone are probably worth it.
majora2007 · 20 days ago
It hasn't changed anything for me. I don't really care if AI trains on my code or not. I write open source to share the code for other developers and give back as a way of pay it forward, to all the people's libraries I've relied on before.

Are people open sourcing their works in hopes to make money and that's their concern? I've never heard of that from people involved in open source.

chris48s · 20 days ago
It has changed things for me.

I recently stepped down from the core team of an open source project. There were various factors that lead to that, but LLMs were one of the factors that contributed to the decision. They are one of the things that has lead to me getting less enjoyment out of working on the project over the last year or so.

In a worst-case scenario, LLMs make it much more possible for someone to generate a large and plausible looking "contribution" with very little investment of effort on their side and minimal understanding of the problem they're trying to "solve". But your time as a maintainer is still finite. If you as a maintainer take every submission at face value as a good faith contribution, then you can easily put a lot of time and effort into the review of these contributions. That can come at the expense of spending that time on higher value activities. In the case where someone has chanced a low-effort LLM submission there is a higher chance that you're going to spend time and effort reviewing this thing, and then the original submitter will just close the PR or ghost when they realise it is more complicated than they thought. You can also end up wasting time on LLM written issues that contain a plausible looking detail that turns out to be spurious.

IMO there is a big difference in the impact LLMs have on software developed by a closed group of contributors (e.g: a team within a company) and open contribution projects. LLMs massively increase the ability of time wasters to submit plausible looking but low effort spammy issues/PRs. This is less of a problem in a high-trust environment. You are not usually trying to protect yourself from spammers and scammers within your own team so you're likely to see more of the benefits of LLMs there and less of the downsides. Conversely, you'll be exposed to those downsides more in a big open contribution bazaar style project where you accept contributions from world+dog.

That is not to say that LLMs have no benefits. Maybe all of this is a problem that will be solved over time. I will still continue to publish and maintain some smaller things, but I think right now is a very bad time to be a maintainer of a large open contribution project.

jFriedensreich · 20 days ago
Its not that many people got paid a lot before for their open source contributions (and pride/ attribution will just change as we get used to the reality) and with models improving more, most projects will be possible to recreate from scratch with very little effort anyways. What changed a lot is how i think about accepting contributions, why go through the hell of PR dance and wait for fixes that take forever or get ghosted if i can just have an agent finish or recreate the PR with immediate reactions and no sensibilities to being called an idiot. Similarly, GPL and garbage dual and "custom" licenses by companies pretending to be open source will just be dead as soon as there are standardised cleanroom rebuilding pipelines. Why would i contribute to something prohibiting me to build a business on top if i can spend a few thousand $ and 2 weeks max to have the whole project rebuild as Apache 2.0 based on behaviour analytics and spec extraction? Apache 2.0 and MIT will be the gravitational force that OSS and even closed source goes to because no one has to care anymore. Of course there are exceptions but those will grow fewer and fewer. Also the hurdle for an open source library or project to be viable existing as a real entity will grow immensely, i would consider the cost of anything on npm too high if it can be rebuild at hoc in a few files and save me from dependencies.