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Posted by u/maytc 24 days ago
Tell HN: Anthropic expires paid credits after a year
> Your organization “xxx” has $xxx Anthropic API credits that will expire on September 03, 2025 UTC.

>

> To ensure uninterrupted service, we recommend enabling auto-reload for your organization. When enabled, we’ll automatically add credits when your balance reaches a specified minimum. You can enable auto-reload in the Anthropic Console.

backprop1989 · 24 days ago
Accounting rules. If the credits last indefinitely, any unused credits cannot be counted as revenue. Ran into this at my last company when we signed a big contract and gave them hundreds of thousands of dollars in non-expiring credits. Our accountant went nuts when we told him.
stingraycharles · 24 days ago
Correct, then you effectively become a holder of someone else’s money, which creates all kinds of legal trouble (you need to put that money into a separate, third party’s account that shields it from bankruptcy etc).

What they could do is automatically refund the credits to the original account as soon as they expire, but that would mean it’s not the deposit but every API request that would be counted as revenue, which creates a whole lot of other complications. Let alone the fact that refunding after a year is problematic as the original payment methods may have expired, changed, and that you’re still the holder of someone else’s money until the credits are used.

Bottom line: this is industry practice, but given how much flack Anthropic has been getting about the lack of transparency lately, this just adds more fuel to the fire and could be defused by some additional explanation from Anthropic’s side.

blindriver · 24 days ago
> you need to put that money into a separate, third party’s account that shields it from bankruptcy

This is wrong. You don’t need to do any of that. They paid for a service and it becomes a liability, but there’s no duty to segregate those funds. You do not turn into a money transfer agent just because you sell pre-paid credits to your service.

theshrike79 · 23 days ago
Fun fact: Starbucks is holding 2 BILLION of people's money in the form of unused gift cards and pre-paid store credit: https://alltrades.substack.com/p/the-bank-of-starbucks
muzani · 24 days ago
Refunding could violate money laundering laws in some countries, and they're in a lot of countries.
backprop1989 · 24 days ago
Exactly, now you’re a bank (or maybe selling unlicensed securities, either way it’s jeopardy).

We ended up revising the contract so that the credits expired after three years. That opened up its own suboptimal outcomes. It was a lesson that was very much learned by us.

On the topic itself - agreed that Anthropic should take a step back and review its policy around comms and good will in general. They’re supposed to be the “good guys” in the AI game - being up front about this stuff is table stakes for them at this point.

OutOfHere · 23 days ago
That's complete nonsense and lies because Uber, Lyft, and some cloud service providers do not have any trouble holding on to user credit indefinitely. I absolutely can let my credit sit in them indefinitely. As such, expiring my credit is deception and theft, plain and simple. It is a practice done by lazy robber accountants. The services that do it right may not always offer a refund, but at least my credit doesn't expire.
Spooky23 · 23 days ago
It’s not that, it’s a revenue recognition issue. And there are lots of tricks around it.
bravesoul2 · 22 days ago
Every API request? Can't they just get an invoice at the end of each month to turn that to $ amount. Like a phone bill.
tom_m · 24 days ago
If they're non-refundable?
ethan_smith · 23 days ago
This is specifically about revenue recognition under accrual accounting - unexpired credits are considered "deferred revenue" (a liability) until used or expired. Companies prefer definite expiration dates to avoid carrying growing liabilities on their balance sheets indefinitely.
jacquesm · 23 days ago
If you can't be bothered to implement it properly, don't use pre-paid accounts but charge as you go.
lelanthran · 23 days ago
> Accounting rules.

Correct.

> If the credits last indefinitely, any unused credits cannot be counted as revenue.

Maybe incorrect? Unless they are cooking the books, the unused credits should reflect as a liability on the books.

When someone pays you for a thing, until they take delivery of it (or use it up if it is a service), you owe them the value of that thing.

iExploder · 23 days ago
If the contract states the credits expire EOY all bets are off. Implicitly makes the credits the 'delivery' not the service itself.
ikidd · 23 days ago
You'd have to replace your accountants anywhere that gift cards aren't allowed to expire by law.

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neom · 24 days ago
When we hired our pre-ipo CFO at DigitalOcean to start getting it ready, he brought in this whole finance team ofc, full FP&A...anyway they spent a couple months going through everything and then one day the controller called a meeting with me and was like "errr... so what's the story with all the credits?" And I was like "huh?" and he said "well we have millions of dollars of credits you've issued to people..." and I explained "oh, it's just like Tom Dale and Alex Sexton and stuff, they're cool they're not going to spin up $10k+ in infra don't worry" and he basically facepalmed and explained to me the liability I'd created. Whooops! :)
archerx · 23 days ago
I miss pre ipo digitalocean.
Waterluvian · 23 days ago
I don't really get this logic. Why don't they count it as revenue the moment the credits are issued?

Or is this more just a "this is a convenient free win as a consequence of how we decide to manage our books."

Havoc · 23 days ago
> Why don't they count it as revenue the moment the credits are issued?

Because the corresponding service hasn't been rendered yet. Conceptually you want the revenue and the costs to generate it recognised at roughly same time else your P/L number is volatile/meaningless

gwd · 23 days ago
> Why don't they count it as revenue the moment the credits are issued?

You've gotten the revenue but you haven't paid the cost for that revenue yet. Those are essentially un-cashed checks that the accountants have to keep on the books indefinitely otherwise. Imagine you're chugging along and out of the blue someone shows up with $100M of credits they bought 10 years ago, expecting you to do something for them. Now you're using electricity and displacing new revenue for money that may be long gone.

anigbrowl · 23 days ago
I'm not sure if this is legal in California. There's a law here specifically to prevent gift cards from expiring automatically.
kelnos · 23 days ago
Unclear, actually. I asked Claude about prepaid credit expiration in California. The answer wasn't super clear; Claude focused on gift cards and gift certificates, which I'm not sure prepaid credit counts as.

Then I specifically asked if Anthropic is allowed to expire its prepaid credit for California users. Claude consulted Anthropics credit terms, said the expire in one year, but then said that it's an interesting legal question, and that I might have grounds to complain to the CA Dept of Consumer Affairs!

eviks · 24 days ago
There are other numbers besides 1 and infinity, though
khuey · 23 days ago
I believe the reason to use 1 year comes from the customer's side: prepayments of services that extend past 1 year have to be capitalized for tax purposes, whereas prepayments of services for 1 year or less can be expensed immediately.
muzani · 24 days ago
Tracking "revenue" past one financial year is its own accounting hell.
notepad0x90 · 23 days ago
Shouldn't they refund remaining credits using the original payment method, instead of you know..stealing?
ManlyBread · 23 days ago
How come this never happens to video game companies that give out various in-game currencies?
benabbott · 23 days ago
Because it does not cost them to provide in-game items (skins, weapons, etc.)

On the other hand, certainly does cost companies to provide compute.

ultimatefan1 · 23 days ago
video game companies definitely have to deal with these same kinds of questions.

from https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/accounting-for-saas-a... :

Accounting for potions: This is fairly easy. If you sell someone a potion, revenue is recognized when they drink the potion. Or use their speed boost. Or skip the progress gate to get to the next dungeon. The fiction doesn’t matter. Reality matters, and the economic reality of the situation is that performance has happened after the temporary thing you’ve promised is delivered. (Technically speaking you do have to recognize the revenue over time if your potions last long enough to be close to monthly SaaS contracts, but practically speaking most are over with in a day and most accounting systems lose precision below that.)

Accounting for swords: If you trade gems for swords then you can ratably recognize the purchase price of the gems when you satisfy your obligation by giving the player a new sword.

Hah, just kidding. That would be way too easy.

You actually need to recognize the prorated cost of the gems exchanged for the sword over the economically useful life of the imaginary sword. “Economically useful life” is a concept with a lot of prior art on it in accounting. You are obligated to, and accountants can point to substantial work on, estimating the economically useful life of factories, cruise ships, CNC machines, bunk beds, Bitcoin miners, dairy cattle, and almost everything else that depreciates.

But there is not a huge amount of prior art on imaginary swords. So you get to pick one of two methods..

The first, by far less commonly used, is to put your head together with very expensive accounting professionals and rigorously answer the question “What events in reality, in the universe we actually live in, would cause the owner of this imaginary sword to believe it had no or de minimis future value to them?” And perhaps that conversation would involve questions like power creep, game balance changes, declining player preference for swords now that you’re offering a sale on imaginary nuclear weapons, etc.

Nobody has time for that conversation or the truly gargantuan amount of implementation engineering required to enforce the decision it comes up with, so they largely use door #2: the economically useful life of a virtual good is by nature upper bounded by the economically useful life of a player’s relationship with our game, so use that instead.

You are required to use your existing data to make a reasonable estimate of how long either the particular player or, failing that, the hypothetical spherical frictionless average player will continue to play the game after the purchase. Then you recognize the price of the sword ratably over that time period.

This causes many virtual goods companies to have bookings (player purchases) diverge sharply from revenue. That depresses the value of their companies, in the real world, and those companies then spend substantial amounts of professional labor taking their frustration out on imaginary swords.

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interestica · 23 days ago
This was the (corp) argument in Canada for allowing companies to expire gift cards. They no longer expire.
ksec · 23 days ago
What about Starbucks top up card or Apple iTunes Credit?

How would those work?

JimDabell · 23 days ago
I’ve implemented those for the next-largest coffee chain. They did the same thing as Anthropic here, for the reasons everybody gave already. Taking money in exchange for future service is a pain to account for if it never gets collected. If somebody loads up a gift card with $100 and then destroys the gift card, you don’t want that $100 to stay on your books forever. It’ll just keep mounting up and up over the years until you have a massive theoretical debt that in practice can’t ever be collected. So they put expiration dates on so they can clear those things off their books. It’s a completely ordinary thing to do, it’s not a rip-off.
tart-lemonade · 23 days ago
Retailers have historical data on gift card redemptions and, using this data, can recognize portions of the unspent value of the gift cards as revenue when that portion is unlikely to be redeemed.
bpavuk · 23 days ago
unlike Anthropic, iTunes and Starbucks are profitable.

suppose iTunes gets $1 from every $5 spent there. if Apple sold a $50 gift card, it can pocket $10 and not worry about it. Anthropic, OTOH, sells their API at loss, so unused credits mean losses that await to be materialized. it is unprofitable for them to let you keep the compute bucks forever.

mrbungie · 24 days ago
Even with a CFO-level explanation, it feels like a weak excuse for "fuck the customer" as always.

Notice that in some places (with good enough customer protection rules) pre-paid credits can't expire, as expiration itself is a clear abuse of market power: they are forcing out revenue from services not given, even if it is "made clear at buy-time". Especially at such short time horizons like 1-year.

And yet they are supposed to be the good guys.

akagusu · 23 days ago
> it feels like a weak excuse for "fuck the customer" as always.

Of course it is just an excuse to "fuck the customer" and grab the money, but it is not something you should question, because in our society you don't question how companies make money.

And it doesn't matter if you are the offended part, people will just protect the state of affairs,even at their own expense.

Just look how people always find a justification for this crap and look how you are being downvoted for pointing another one.

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csomar · 24 days ago
You could count it as revenue once it’s consumed but my understanding is that if you are US based you are essentially acting as a wallet of sort.

This is of course solvable: book the credit as revenue. Transform the dollar credit to points credits that the user can use indefinitely.

killerstorm · 22 days ago
Skype expires the credits. But then allows customer to restore them. I think it's the best to comply with laws: it's just a mild annoyance for the customer.
KingOfCoders · 23 days ago
Had the same problem with vouchers in one startup, gave out free vouchers as marketing, became a huge accounting headache when the company wanted to clean things up.

Also huge problems (Germany) with yearly payments and how to account for them to minimize liabilities.

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aflag · 22 days ago
They can't because they aren't, right? That's the whole point of having them not expiring. Until you used them, you can still get your money back in some situations.
sleepybrett · 23 days ago
Not accounting rules. Shady accounting. Sell someone credits that expire or not expire.. if you sell someone something that expires you can get some free money.
cedws · 20 days ago
Can you just make them expire after 1000 years?
OutOfHere · 23 days ago
That's complete nonsense because Uber, Lyft, and some cloud service providers, and others do not have this issue. I can let my credit sit in them indefinitely. As such, it is deception and theft, plain and simple. They may not always offer a refund, but at least my credit doesn't expire.
verdverm · 23 days ago
Here's an idea, bill me for usage and let me set limits, instead of this pay upfront and if you don't use it we keep it model

Anthropic tried to charge my card a few weeks back, but fortunately it was declined by my card. I haven't used their service in 6+ months, but they still want to try and take my money

just-ok · 24 days ago
So does OpenAI (last I checked) which I sadly learned the hard way.
georgel · 24 days ago
I lost my free credits they were giving away a couple years back, but when you pay they make it fairly clear they will expire. I see no issues here from any provider doing this, as long as it is made clear.
kelnos · 23 days ago
I have many issues with providers doing that. The reason they take your money and give you credits in exchange is because that gives them lower credit card processing fees (one larger transaction vs. many smaller ones). If they're going to do that to make things cheaper for them, then they should let me use those credits whenever I want, no matter how far into the future I want to use them.

If not, they should refund them. They absolutely should refund them if I close my account.

If I'm going to give you money, I expect something in return for every cent of it. That's just basic decency.

OutOfHere · 23 days ago
Even though they do make it clear, one should still have an issue with providers doing it. The reason is that various providers like Uber, Lyft, Namecheap, and some cloud vendors, etc. do not do it at all. As such it is a fairly unethical practice.
gloosx · 23 days ago
Anthropic also doesn't provide any way to remove your credit card once you add it to your account, which tells it's a very greedy company.
pzo · 24 days ago
Happenned the same for me recently with anthropic and before with openai. It's yearly inflation is infinity which is crazy

I switched to openrouter but will find out if they do the same

bakugo · 24 days ago
I believe OpenRouter currently does not expire credits, but in their terms, they explicitly reserve the right to expire them after 1 year, so they might do it in the future.
rsanek · 24 days ago
OpenRouter takes its cut though
blindriver · 24 days ago
This doesn’t sound legal in California at least.

I know gift certificates are not allowed to expire in California and I would hazard a guess that prepaid credits probably wouldn’t be allowed to expire either.

siffin · 22 days ago
I guess there is a difference in the fact that gift certificates are always devaluing with monetary inflation, whereas prepaid credit can be used to purchase a service which is just as energy intensive (cost to provider) in 10 years, as it is if used in the next month. Yet in 10 years, the cost to the provider will be more to deliver the same energy (due again to monetary inflation).

There doesn't seem to be a neutral option here, because it's very hard to account for inflation without the holding party paying dividends at the exact rate to offset it.

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freedomben · 23 days ago
To be fair, this is prominently displayed in the console, so they aren't trying to hide it. I personally hate the idea of expiring, but as other commenters have mentioned there are pretty good reasons for this (accounting, banking laws, etc).