In the mass murders, by the time the Einsatzgruppen had you facing the pit, they had already moved you through a long cordon where you were beaten or shot for doing anything but running forward. Before that, you were shot for making any move towards self-preservation in your ghetto. Before that, you were selected and shot or worked to death if you looked strong enough to be a problem. At each of these steps the survivors thought they might have experienced the worst that would happen. This problem cannot be solved by wishing harder to be brave.
In Rwanda the killing apparatus was set in motion so quickly that people didn't have time to react and offer organized resistance to their neighbors. Only in Bisesero was there meaningful fighting.
In Chile enemies of the state were rounded up in the days following the coup and tortured to death.
In Argentina people were disappeared.
In Spain there were arrests, assassinations and reprisal killings.
At Katyn, how were the Poles to know they'd be shot one by one?
At Beslan, the attackers preemptively shot anyone perceived as a threat.
If your situation is 100% totally hopeless, it's probably preferable to most people to take the clean shot than to try to escape and have a potentially much worse death.
There's also some bit of (ironically) survivor bias going on here: Most of the people sitting in front of the ditch didn't leave the country. They didn't join up with the resistance. They didn't try to escape 3 weeks prior. This isn't even getting into the Jungian "death drive" where, at a certain point, you'd rather just die than keep trying to struggle.
Some people make bad, illogical choices when the stakes are extremely low, and some do the same when it's life or death. The human mind is a wonder of inefficient perfection.
> This isn't even getting into the Jungian "death drive"
The death drive is Freudian, not Jungian. However, it might be very relevant here. Freud's conception of it would include passively accepting death. As you say, by the time the prisoner is about to be executed, they're often resigned to their fate, the death drive having overcome the id long ago. Contrast with massacres where the victims weren't expecting it (the Malmedy massacre of freshly captured troops comes to mind from the same era) and you see people trying to run away once it starts.
Lacan called himself Freudian, but I think his conception links the death drive with active desire, seeking a form of self-destructive pleasure by action. I recall from Écrits that he links it to masochism, for example, calling it an expression of transgressive jouissance.
Will add this related tangent in. We're so far removed from human death, forget that we are just a bunch of organs inside a bag. If you ever see autopsy or gore footage, it's surreal. Idk I used to look at em to remind myself/ground me of what I am.
The other thing is how many people there are, that idea of visualizing everyone as a huge ball of meat compared to the Earth. But just to point out about being special when there are billions.
> Idk I used to look at em to remind myself/ground me of what I am
You doing ok? I embrace my cosmic insignificance for sure but it's more freeing to me that I don't have to measure myself by anyone's standards (within reason) except my own and those who I love vs to remind myself that I'm just going to be less than a blip in the timeline.
I'm alright, I'm distracted in life by debt/trying to meet a partner.
But I can get the overview effect looking at the stars/unplug from the system I know I sound like a crackpot. System being the 9-5 standard life, I want to not have a job/be retired I guess (although I would do what I want to do full time eg. work on robotics hobby).
I mostly mean hard to empathize when the pain is not in your face like watching combat footage of what's happening in Ukraine. People shooting themselves in the head instead of waiting for the grenade to drop from the drone and mangle them. Other stuff to watch Cartel videos just brutal stuff damn, separates animal from civilization/higher mind when you experience trauma like that.
I might just be jaded from reading the news everyday time to go back into the sand.
> Still, at that point there is nothing worse than doing what you’re told for the last ninety seconds of your life and making things easy for the death squad
This line was the point that invalidated the thesis for me. There are tons of things that are worse than accepting your death.
Maybe fighting back will cause harm to others. Maybe you will be tortured as punishment. Maybe you are in such pain that you want death altogether.
Death is obviously never a good option, but it doesn't take much imagination to think of far worse ones.
Usually, massacres result in guerrilla warfare, carried out by others.
Read "Mini-Manual of the Urban Guerrilla", by Carlos Marighella, who was one.[1]
And, of course, Mao.[2] Those are the two classic works.
Mao is more about the politics, while Marighella is focused on guns and tactics.
There’s a spectacular moment in Django Unchained where Leonardo DiCaprio (a generational plantation master) asks something like “why don’t they fight back?”
If you understand both the answer to that question and the fear underlying its asking, you understand a lot about how atrocity is sustained.
Is it the analogy of the Elephant being chained when young/still thinks chained as an adult. I saw that movie when it came out so been a while.
I can see it now even if I was disatisfied enough with the gov I don't see myself doing anything significant to fight it. Would just go with the flow. Funny I actually tried to vote for once and I couldn't because I haven't been registered recently or something... not that it mattered 20 million votes short.
> Still, at that point there is nothing worse than doing what you’re told for the last ninety seconds of your life and making things easy for the death squad.
My brother has not heard of tortures without end. Compared to that, a bully to the back of your head sounds like a blessing.
Readit News
In Rwanda the killing apparatus was set in motion so quickly that people didn't have time to react and offer organized resistance to their neighbors. Only in Bisesero was there meaningful fighting.
In Chile enemies of the state were rounded up in the days following the coup and tortured to death.
In Argentina people were disappeared.
In Spain there were arrests, assassinations and reprisal killings.
At Katyn, how were the Poles to know they'd be shot one by one?
At Beslan, the attackers preemptively shot anyone perceived as a threat.
Some people make bad, illogical choices when the stakes are extremely low, and some do the same when it's life or death. The human mind is a wonder of inefficient perfection.
The death drive is Freudian, not Jungian. However, it might be very relevant here. Freud's conception of it would include passively accepting death. As you say, by the time the prisoner is about to be executed, they're often resigned to their fate, the death drive having overcome the id long ago. Contrast with massacres where the victims weren't expecting it (the Malmedy massacre of freshly captured troops comes to mind from the same era) and you see people trying to run away once it starts.
Lacan called himself Freudian, but I think his conception links the death drive with active desire, seeking a form of self-destructive pleasure by action. I recall from Écrits that he links it to masochism, for example, calling it an expression of transgressive jouissance.
Deleted Comment
The other thing is how many people there are, that idea of visualizing everyone as a huge ball of meat compared to the Earth. But just to point out about being special when there are billions.
You doing ok? I embrace my cosmic insignificance for sure but it's more freeing to me that I don't have to measure myself by anyone's standards (within reason) except my own and those who I love vs to remind myself that I'm just going to be less than a blip in the timeline.
But I can get the overview effect looking at the stars/unplug from the system I know I sound like a crackpot. System being the 9-5 standard life, I want to not have a job/be retired I guess (although I would do what I want to do full time eg. work on robotics hobby).
I mostly mean hard to empathize when the pain is not in your face like watching combat footage of what's happening in Ukraine. People shooting themselves in the head instead of waiting for the grenade to drop from the drone and mangle them. Other stuff to watch Cartel videos just brutal stuff damn, separates animal from civilization/higher mind when you experience trauma like that.
I might just be jaded from reading the news everyday time to go back into the sand.
This line was the point that invalidated the thesis for me. There are tons of things that are worse than accepting your death.
Maybe fighting back will cause harm to others. Maybe you will be tortured as punishment. Maybe you are in such pain that you want death altogether.
Death is obviously never a good option, but it doesn't take much imagination to think of far worse ones.
Read "Mini-Manual of the Urban Guerrilla", by Carlos Marighella, who was one.[1] And, of course, Mao.[2] Those are the two classic works. Mao is more about the politics, while Marighella is focused on guns and tactics.
[1] https://files.libcom.org/files/MarighellaManual.pdf
[2] https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/FMFRP%2012-18...
If you understand both the answer to that question and the fear underlying its asking, you understand a lot about how atrocity is sustained.
I can see it now even if I was disatisfied enough with the gov I don't see myself doing anything significant to fight it. Would just go with the flow. Funny I actually tried to vote for once and I couldn't because I haven't been registered recently or something... not that it mattered 20 million votes short.
My brother has not heard of tortures without end. Compared to that, a bully to the back of your head sounds like a blessing.