I finally located a video with a live demonstration of Chuck Farnham's HyperCard Smut Stack, from the auspicious journalistic production "Geraldo: Sex in the 90's. From Computer Porn to Fax Foxes"!
DonHopkins 6 months ago | parent | context | favorite | on: ASCII porn predates the Internet but it's still ev...
Then you would have loved the HyperCard Smut Stack, the first commercial HyperCard stack ever released!
I've begged Chuck to dig around to see if he has an old copy of the floppy lying around and upload it, but so far I don't know of a copy online you can run. Its bold pioneering balance of art and slease deserves preservation, and the story behind it is hilarious.
Edit: OMG I've just found the Geraldo episode with Chuck online, auspiciously titled "Geraldo: Sex in the 90's. From Computer Porn to Fax Foxes", which shows an example of Smut Stack (demo starts at 2:00 but worth watching the whole thing just for Chuck's continuous smirk):
DonHopkins on Feb 10, 2020 | parent | context | favorite | on: HyperCard: What Could Have Been (2002)
Do you have the first commercial HyperCard stack ever released: the HyperCard SmutStack? Or SmutStack II, the Carnal Knowledge Navigator, both by Chuck Farnham?
SmutStack was the first commercial HyperCard product available at rollout, released two weeks before HyperCard went public at a MacWorld Expo, cost $15, and made a lot of money (according to Chuck).
SmutStack 2, the Carnal Knowledge Navigator, had every type of sexual adventure you could imagine in it, including information about gays, lesbians, transgendered, HIV, safer sex, etc. Chuck was also the marketing guy for Mac Playmate, which got him on Geraldo, and sued by Playboy.
>Smut Stack. One of the first commercial stacks available at the launch of HyperCard was Smut Stack, a hilarious collection (if you were in sixth grade) of somewhat naughty images that would make joke, present a popup image, or a fart sound when the viewer clicked on them. The author was Chuck Farnham of Chuck's Weird World fame.
>How did he do it? After all, HyperCard was a major secret down at Cupertino, even at that time before the wall of silence went up around Apple.
>It seems that Farnham was walking around the San Jose flea market in the spring of 1987 and spotted a couple of used Macs for sale. He was told that they were broken. Carting them home, he got them running and discovered several early builds of HyperCard as well as its programming environment. Fooling around with the program, he was able to build the Smut Stack, which sold out at the Boston Macworld Expo, being one of the only commercial stacks available at the show.
>This staunch defender was none other than Chuck Farnham, whom readers of this column will remember as the self-appointed gadfly known for rooting around in Apple’s trash cans. One of Farnham ’s myriad enterprises is Digital Deviations, whose products include the infamous SmutStack, the Carnal Knowledge Navigator, and the multiple-disk set Sounds of Susan. The last comes in two versions: a $15 disk of generic sex noises and, for $10 more, a personalized version in which the talented Susan moans and groans using your name. I am not making this up.
>Farnham is frank about his participation in the Macintosh smut trade. “The problem with porno is generic,” he says, sounding for the briefest moment like Oliver Wendell Holmes. “When you do it, you have to make a commitment ... say you did it and say it’s yours. Most people would not stand up in front of God and country and say, ‘It’s mine.’ I don’t mind being called Mr. Scum Bag.”
>On the other hand, he admits cheerily, “There’s a huge market for sex stuff.” This despite the lack of true eroticism. “It’s a novelty,” says Farnham. Sort of the software equivalent of those ballpoint pens with the picture of a woman with a disappearing bikini.
>“Chuck developed the first commercial stack, the Smutstack, which was released two weeks before HyperCard went public at a MacWorld Expo. He’s embarrassed how much money a silly collection of sounds, cartoons, and scans of naked women brought in. His later version, the Carnal Knowledge Navigator, was also a hit.
I am on the fence with these topics because I have years of fear drilled into me. These topics are a taboo and I have rarely ever tried anything at all. The experiences did not ruin me, they made me more curious about my brain in a positive way. But the social taboo lingers.
What surprises me the most is that we have accepted sugar, alcohol, cigarettes and a ton of mass manufactured food which are harming us. I am struggling with high blood glucose for 12 years. Yet, the substance which I can grow in my* own backyard and may actually not be as harmful is just brainwashed out of my limits.
As a similar "Boy Scout" of sorts, the fear is/was real. I didn’t experiment with so much as nicotine or alcohol until I’d tried “stuff” with the supervision of an experienced "sitter"; I ended up having some of the best times of my life in the safety and context of home and friendships. Combined with my own life experiences with drug abuse and addictions, I was able to build a healthy relationship with those substances that didn't result in dependency or abuse.
In the time since, my views have changed dramatically on these substances, and I'd like to try more of them. However, my personal moral compass prevents me from using substances outside of a legally permissible setting, at least at present - and that's something I'm fine with.
Ultimately, the taboo side of things is something the individual has to grapple with on their own. I can only commiserate with your frustrations, not help overcome them unfortunately. My only other advice would be to use any substance only to amplify good vibes, never to cope with bad ones.
If all you do is chase a lost feeling, you're missing out on what's in front of you now.
> I ended up having some of the best times of my life in the safety and context of home and friendships.
> However, my personal moral compass prevents me from using substances outside of a legally permissible setting, at least at present - and that's something I'm fine with.
Is there that much of a social taboo? Maybe it's just the people I hang out with and work with, but most people are open to psychedelic use and a lot have at least tried some.
Yes, it’s your bubble. There are American states still charging people over marijuana. Having grown up Christian I personally know people in their 30s who view psychedelic and heroin users similarly. Those people would have the opposite view of you.
Years back, my friend’s parents asked me to stage an intervention for him after they found out he regularly took LSD. He was 19 at the time.
Isn't the distinction based on whether the substance directly cause a wage gap and/or significant life expectancy loss? Someone on meth all the time can literally fatigue-free until there is no brain matter left, but someone on coffee or beer can not.
It is often argued that some of generally illegal substances like marijuana is only toxic to comparable extents as legal substances, but there are observations that it seem to trigger some types of megalomaniac schizophrenia, so the fence probably has reasons to be there, I think.
> Isn't the distinction based on whether the substance directly cause a wage gap and/or significant life expectancy loss?
No. I feel QUITE certain that the distinction is based on whether or not the substance has a history of a few generations of widespread use among western Europeans ("white people").
> His open-source approach democratized psychedelic exploration, shifting power away from costly retreats and elite gatekeepers toward broader accessibility.
No surprise that, in keeping with the hacker spirit, Bill wanted to democratize information that is otherwise accessible only to "high" priests.
(From the photo caption) "Bill ... with his iphone prototype"
Nope. That's a Sony Magic Link, built by Bill (and others, myself included) during his time at General Magic. I feel General Magic is another one of Bill's endeavors that isn't widely understood or appreciated.
My name is Jay. I guess I was one of the "lesser" magicians. I worked on the Telescript side, doing infrastructure for the Telescript engine. But I got to interact with both Bill and Andy, and Phil and Tony, who I followed to further ventures. My experience at General Magic was certainly eye opening and super educational.
Josh Siegel worked in Magic Cap Core Technology with Bill Atkinson and Andy Hertzfeld (both "on loan"). At Sun he rewrote the PostScript interpreter in X11/NeWS from James Gosling's original messy design, and we worked on an X11 window manager written in PostScript. And at Los Alamos National Labs he wrote MMPORG simulations of World War III for the Joint Chiefs of Staff with a beautiful interactive NeWS front-end. (Sun was lucky to steal him away from LANL to work on NeWS instead of WWIII.)
Don Woods worked in Communicating Applications. He and Will Crowther created Colossal Cave Adventure, and we worked on TNT (The NeWS Toolkit) together. His workstation was named "colossal" and when you logged in, its /etc/motd said "Welcome to Adventure!! Would you like instructions?" to the peril of anyone who typed "yes" to the csh prompt. Don wrote the "Spider" card game in PostScript for NeWS, after having previously implemented it at SAIL (Stanford AI Lab) and for XDE (at Xerox PARC).
After having worked on NeWS (the network extensible PostScript window system) and written a lot of PostScript code at Sun, Telescript was obviously the right approach. Today the same approach is called "AJAX".
Bit like asking where all the beer drinkers are! People who are into psychedelics come from all walks of life and we're everywhere :) Start talking about fringe stuff with people and eventually you'll stumble upon others.
I mean, it's not the same is it, because I can tell you where I can at least find beer drinkers … down the pub, at the bar.
If your bubble has people in it who have access to psychedelics, then great. If one's people doesn't have that, "just talk to people" is profoundly unhelpful. That's a very odd and specific conversation to bring up within some circles.
We need to push to make this stuff legal. I wouldn't go so far as to say lets sell it OTC vape pens at gas stations but a middle ground where you can go to a doctor to have this treatment performed.
I personally have never taken DMT though from everything I've read and heard on podcasts it's not something to be taken lightly. I think having a sort of "DMT Clinic" that you can go to would be the best middle ground of allowing the public access to these substances while also ensuring that there is a trained professional there to guide you through the process.
Saying "trained professional" in this context feels wired because this stuff has been underground for so long but I think it's starting to bubble up into the mainstream enough that we need to start bringing all that "into the light". Lets have training programs that teach people how to administer this stuff properly, how to deal with the negative side effects, etc.
One of the things that while I find understandable is ridiculous is the fact that Bill had to use a pseudonym in the community. I feel like if were at the point where you have C-suite types at Apple taking this stuff, it's time to think about making it available to the broader public.
Last year I underwent treatments for my treatment-resistant major depression using Ketamine. It was a clinical setting, where you'd get wired up to blood pressure, pulse-ox, and other monitors while you were monitored by an RN via video camera. This was IV Ketamine, so not the inhalants that are available now. According to the clinic, the inhalants (which they also offered) are also generally less effective than IV, and the IV was safer in my case because I have other medical conditions where being able to "shut it off" was a good thing - you can turn an IV off, but once you inhale, you're on your own.
So... this clinic was not entirely unlike what you're proposing w/ DMT.
FWIW, the results were incredible. I was effectively "cured." But unfortunately my insurance changed, and it became no longer covered, and I couldn't afford the $2000 every six weeks for the treatment anymore. And it's not super convenient to take two hours off from work to go to the trip-sitter's to get the treatments.
I hope that they figure out what it is in psychadelics that make them effective at treating stuff like depression and PTSD and make it more accessible because it seems like there's so much potential there.
(Also: fuck Elon Musk for making Ketamine a punchline)
Fun fact: the cost of the ketamine in that $2000 treatment is about $1. Even factoring in trained staff to monitor, you’re up to a few hundred bucks for the hour. It’s mostly just the failings of the US medical establishment, and, of course, arbitrarily constrained supply that results in gouging.
Just go buy $100 in street ketamine (still marked up 100x, fwiw, also because laws) from someone reputable, test it for fentanyl, and blow lines of it. Same deal, $1900 less cost. Breaking some dumb rules is far preferable to living with untreated depression.
"I think having a sort of "DMT Clinic" that you can go to would be the best middle ground "
Well, Ayahuasca (with DMT as the active ingredient) retreats seem more and more common and are for some reasons tolerated more and more in europe.
Technically it is illegal, but I can still book them online.
But I won't, as I don't trust the competence of the average new age "shaman".
N,N-DMT is very intense and not to be taken lightly - but you could say the same with LSD, psilocybin, etc. Personally, I am much more wary of large doses of LSD/psilocybin than DMT, in part to the substantially longer duration of the former. Ego death and the complete dissolution of reality makes it harder to have a bad trip
When time stops until the end of this universe gives way to the beginning of this universe and the snake eats it's tail, "longer" doesn't hold much meaning...
"A client may only access psilocybin at a licensed service center during an administration session in the presence of a trained, licensed facilitator."
A wise legalization might help with access & harm-reduction... but legalizations are sometimes bungled.
In the SF bay area – & plenty of other regions around the world – the criminal enforcement against hallucinogens is, de facto, a very low priority as long as you're not flagrantly endangering or inconveniencing others.
They were administering over 30mg to humans in trials. (Metzner (2013); Shulgin and Shulgin (1997); Ott (2001); Davis et al. (2018); Uthaug et al. (2020a))
Sheep are susceptible to toxicity from certain tryptamine alkaloids because of their physiology.
These alkaloids, especially those that are N,N-dimethylated, can trigger neurological symptoms in sheep, such as convulsions, spasticity, and gait issues. The alkaloids are suspected to affect the brain and spinal cord by interacting with serotonin receptors.
5-MeO-DMT is an N,N-dimethylated compound. Its full chemical name is 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine. That indicates the presence of two methyl groups attached to the nitrogen atom of the tryptamine backbone.
Accessibility is great, but you really should have a guide supporting you for your first journey. This is very different than being (say) introduced to a computer for the first time. Having an experienced friend/practitioner/therapist there can help you go deeper, keep you safe, and support you in integrating your experience. This is probably the most potent psychedelic on the planet.
Readit News
Timothy Leary's Mind Mirror (1985) (usc.edu)
https://scalar.usc.edu/works/timothy-leary-software/index
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32578683
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oabRxvjf9k
I extracted all the text and data from the Apple ][ floppy disk:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37486524
https://donhopkins.com/home/mind-mirror.txt
https://github.com/SimHacker/lloooomm/tree/main/00-Character...
Deleted Comment
https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/freeman/lifestreams.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42571845
DonHopkins 6 months ago | parent | context | favorite | on: ASCII porn predates the Internet but it's still ev...
Then you would have loved the HyperCard Smut Stack, the first commercial HyperCard stack ever released! I've begged Chuck to dig around to see if he has an old copy of the floppy lying around and upload it, but so far I don't know of a copy online you can run. Its bold pioneering balance of art and slease deserves preservation, and the story behind it is hilarious.
Edit: OMG I've just found the Geraldo episode with Chuck online, auspiciously titled "Geraldo: Sex in the 90's. From Computer Porn to Fax Foxes", which shows an example of Smut Stack (demo starts at 2:00 but worth watching the whole thing just for Chuck's continuous smirk):
https://visual-icon.com/lionsgate/detail/?id=67563&t=ts
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22285675
DonHopkins on Feb 10, 2020 | parent | context | favorite | on: HyperCard: What Could Have Been (2002)
Do you have the first commercial HyperCard stack ever released: the HyperCard SmutStack? Or SmutStack II, the Carnal Knowledge Navigator, both by Chuck Farnham?
SmutStack was the first commercial HyperCard product available at rollout, released two weeks before HyperCard went public at a MacWorld Expo, cost $15, and made a lot of money (according to Chuck). SmutStack 2, the Carnal Knowledge Navigator, had every type of sexual adventure you could imagine in it, including information about gays, lesbians, transgendered, HIV, safer sex, etc. Chuck was also the marketing guy for Mac Playmate, which got him on Geraldo, and sued by Playboy.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/could-the-ios-app-be-the-21st-...
>Smut Stack. One of the first commercial stacks available at the launch of HyperCard was Smut Stack, a hilarious collection (if you were in sixth grade) of somewhat naughty images that would make joke, present a popup image, or a fart sound when the viewer clicked on them. The author was Chuck Farnham of Chuck's Weird World fame.
>How did he do it? After all, HyperCard was a major secret down at Cupertino, even at that time before the wall of silence went up around Apple.
>It seems that Farnham was walking around the San Jose flea market in the spring of 1987 and spotted a couple of used Macs for sale. He was told that they were broken. Carting them home, he got them running and discovered several early builds of HyperCard as well as its programming environment. Fooling around with the program, he was able to build the Smut Stack, which sold out at the Boston Macworld Expo, being one of the only commercial stacks available at the show.
https://archive.org/stream/MacWorld_9008_August_1990/MacWorl...
Page 69 of https://archive.org/stream/MacWorld_9008_August_1990
>Famham's Choice
>This staunch defender was none other than Chuck Farnham, whom readers of this column will remember as the self-appointed gadfly known for rooting around in Apple’s trash cans. One of Farnham ’s myriad enterprises is Digital Deviations, whose products include the infamous SmutStack, the Carnal Knowledge Navigator, and the multiple-disk set Sounds of Susan. The last comes in two versions: a $15 disk of generic sex noises and, for $10 more, a personalized version in which the talented Susan moans and groans using your name. I am not making this up.
>Farnham is frank about his participation in the Macintosh smut trade. “The problem with porno is generic,” he says, sounding for the briefest moment like Oliver Wendell Holmes. “When you do it, you have to make a commitment ... say you did it and say it’s yours. Most people would not stand up in front of God and country and say, ‘It’s mine.’ I don’t mind being called Mr. Scum Bag.”
>On the other hand, he admits cheerily, “There’s a huge market for sex stuff.” This despite the lack of true eroticism. “It’s a novelty,” says Farnham. Sort of the software equivalent of those ballpoint pens with the picture of a woman with a disappearing bikini.
https://archive.org/stream/NewComputerExpress110/NewComputer... [taken down]
Page 18 of https://archive.org/stream/NewComputerExpress110 [taken down]
>“Chuck developed the first commercial stack, the Smutstack, which was released two weeks before HyperCard went public at a MacWorld Expo. He’s embarrassed how much money a silly collection of sounds, cartoons, and scans of naked women brought in. His later version, the Carnal Knowledge Navigator, was also a hit.
What surprises me the most is that we have accepted sugar, alcohol, cigarettes and a ton of mass manufactured food which are harming us. I am struggling with high blood glucose for 12 years. Yet, the substance which I can grow in my* own backyard and may actually not be as harmful is just brainwashed out of my limits.
edits: you to me
In the time since, my views have changed dramatically on these substances, and I'd like to try more of them. However, my personal moral compass prevents me from using substances outside of a legally permissible setting, at least at present - and that's something I'm fine with.
Ultimately, the taboo side of things is something the individual has to grapple with on their own. I can only commiserate with your frustrations, not help overcome them unfortunately. My only other advice would be to use any substance only to amplify good vibes, never to cope with bad ones.
If all you do is chase a lost feeling, you're missing out on what's in front of you now.
> However, my personal moral compass prevents me from using substances outside of a legally permissible setting, at least at present - and that's something I'm fine with.
What on Earth do laws have to do with morals?
Some people’s conception of “normal people” is people at a church ice cream social.
Different perspectives, I think.
Years back, my friend’s parents asked me to stage an intervention for him after they found out he regularly took LSD. He was 19 at the time.
It is often argued that some of generally illegal substances like marijuana is only toxic to comparable extents as legal substances, but there are observations that it seem to trigger some types of megalomaniac schizophrenia, so the fence probably has reasons to be there, I think.
No. I feel QUITE certain that the distinction is based on whether or not the substance has a history of a few generations of widespread use among western Europeans ("white people").
No surprise that, in keeping with the hacker spirit, Bill wanted to democratize information that is otherwise accessible only to "high" priests.
(From the photo caption) "Bill ... with his iphone prototype"
Nope. That's a Sony Magic Link, built by Bill (and others, myself included) during his time at General Magic. I feel General Magic is another one of Bill's endeavors that isn't widely understood or appreciated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Magic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Leap
Yes, he carried it everywhere. Yes, he used it during his job interview. Yes, it helped.
http://www.datarover.com/SEKRIT/general-magic-org-chart-1994...
Josh Siegel worked in Magic Cap Core Technology with Bill Atkinson and Andy Hertzfeld (both "on loan"). At Sun he rewrote the PostScript interpreter in X11/NeWS from James Gosling's original messy design, and we worked on an X11 window manager written in PostScript. And at Los Alamos National Labs he wrote MMPORG simulations of World War III for the Joint Chiefs of Staff with a beautiful interactive NeWS front-end. (Sun was lucky to steal him away from LANL to work on NeWS instead of WWIII.)
https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/owm.ps.txt
https://www.donhopkins.com/home/catalog/unix-haters/x-window...
Don Woods worked in Communicating Applications. He and Will Crowther created Colossal Cave Adventure, and we worked on TNT (The NeWS Toolkit) together. His workstation was named "colossal" and when you logged in, its /etc/motd said "Welcome to Adventure!! Would you like instructions?" to the peril of anyone who typed "yes" to the csh prompt. Don wrote the "Spider" card game in PostScript for NeWS, after having previously implemented it at SAIL (Stanford AI Lab) and for XDE (at Xerox PARC).
https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/news-tape/fun/spider/spi...
http://www.icynic.com/~don/
After having worked on NeWS (the network extensible PostScript window system) and written a lot of PostScript code at Sun, Telescript was obviously the right approach. Today the same approach is called "AJAX".
I wonder what "SEKRET" means? ;)
http://www.datarover.com/SEKRIT
Must have something to do with Magic Cap for Windows '95, which may be the killer app of e-mail...
http://www.datarover.com/
I must sample their handles for videogame character names.
Bit like asking where all the beer drinkers are! People who are into psychedelics come from all walks of life and we're everywhere :) Start talking about fringe stuff with people and eventually you'll stumble upon others.
If your bubble has people in it who have access to psychedelics, then great. If one's people doesn't have that, "just talk to people" is profoundly unhelpful. That's a very odd and specific conversation to bring up within some circles.
You’re opening yourself up to blackmail by hundreds of different parties.
It is blatantly irresponsible to host such communities on Discord. Possession and use are federal felonies.
I personally have never taken DMT though from everything I've read and heard on podcasts it's not something to be taken lightly. I think having a sort of "DMT Clinic" that you can go to would be the best middle ground of allowing the public access to these substances while also ensuring that there is a trained professional there to guide you through the process.
Saying "trained professional" in this context feels wired because this stuff has been underground for so long but I think it's starting to bubble up into the mainstream enough that we need to start bringing all that "into the light". Lets have training programs that teach people how to administer this stuff properly, how to deal with the negative side effects, etc.
One of the things that while I find understandable is ridiculous is the fact that Bill had to use a pseudonym in the community. I feel like if were at the point where you have C-suite types at Apple taking this stuff, it's time to think about making it available to the broader public.
So... this clinic was not entirely unlike what you're proposing w/ DMT.
FWIW, the results were incredible. I was effectively "cured." But unfortunately my insurance changed, and it became no longer covered, and I couldn't afford the $2000 every six weeks for the treatment anymore. And it's not super convenient to take two hours off from work to go to the trip-sitter's to get the treatments.
I hope that they figure out what it is in psychadelics that make them effective at treating stuff like depression and PTSD and make it more accessible because it seems like there's so much potential there.
(Also: fuck Elon Musk for making Ketamine a punchline)
Just go buy $100 in street ketamine (still marked up 100x, fwiw, also because laws) from someone reputable, test it for fentanyl, and blow lines of it. Same deal, $1900 less cost. Breaking some dumb rules is far preferable to living with untreated depression.
How does it work? Is the half-life of it shorter when administered IV?
But that doesn't make replacing every instance of ketamine with "horse tranquilizer" any less funny.
Well, Ayahuasca (with DMT as the active ingredient) retreats seem more and more common and are for some reasons tolerated more and more in europe. Technically it is illegal, but I can still book them online.
But I won't, as I don't trust the competence of the average new age "shaman".
Ayahuasca trips seem to be like edging with poison. But maybe the documentary I saw was biased.
https://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/preventionwellness/pages/psilo...
"A client may only access psilocybin at a licensed service center during an administration session in the presence of a trained, licensed facilitator."
In the SF bay area – & plenty of other regions around the world – the criminal enforcement against hallucinogens is, de facto, a very low priority as long as you're not flagrantly endangering or inconveniencing others.
the normal dose is 5-10mg, but LD50 in sheep is about 100mg, it might be as low as 30mg in humans.
It absolutely should not be legal, at least to anyone. Perhaps require training in dealing with drugs with a low therapeutic index
1–5 mg/kg IV
1–2 mg/kg SC
85 mg/kg O
In mice:
75–115 mg/kg IP
48 mg/kg IV
113 mg/kg SC
278 mg/kg O
They were administering over 30mg to humans in trials. (Metzner (2013); Shulgin and Shulgin (1997); Ott (2001); Davis et al. (2018); Uthaug et al. (2020a))
Sheep are susceptible to toxicity from certain tryptamine alkaloids because of their physiology.
These alkaloids, especially those that are N,N-dimethylated, can trigger neurological symptoms in sheep, such as convulsions, spasticity, and gait issues. The alkaloids are suspected to affect the brain and spinal cord by interacting with serotonin receptors.
5-MeO-DMT is an N,N-dimethylated compound. Its full chemical name is 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine. That indicates the presence of two methyl groups attached to the nitrogen atom of the tryptamine backbone.
Stay safe, everyone!
That seems quite unlikely given that there are many 30mg dose trip reports, going as far back as TiHKAL.
You can't use animal models for dose, you have to convert to hED (Human-Equivalent Dosage). You can estimate this generally with allometric scaling:
https://drughunter.com/practical-pk-calculators
Also, animal physiology varies.
Beta-adrenergic agonists like clenbuterol make mice wildly muscular, which unfortunately is not the case in humans, for example.
"why, there's no magazine called 'Weird' is there?" [0]
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjZ0GBL9ArA
Dead Comment