I am based in the UK. I work as a software/automation engineer in department A. Recently, department B bought software from a big-name company which uses yaml files to steer/control automation framework (think IaC). I don't work for/with anyone in dep. B, but they showcased their new software to few different departments (including mine) - hence I learnt about that software. Now, during presentation, it came up that while controlling everything through YAML files is amazing (thanks to git versioning, webhooks etc.) it was brought up that manging 100s of files and lines of code will be difficult due to amount of places to change single value. When discussed, it was stated that there is no plans to create any frontend by that company to manage all those files and this seemed to upset a lot of stakeholders. The software has been purchased and it's going to be rolled out anyway.
I see this as an opportunity to step in and sell the idea of creating frontend for this tool, however I don't want to do anything for free. Since I don't work in this department directly, I don't know how I should approach this. Perhpas I should create MVP first and engage with some stakeholders and see if they are interested?
This contract was a win-win. My company got the features they wanted as part of my normal employment, but I also got to keep the idea and monetize it outside the company if I wanted to. The company didn't need to worry about licensing if I left since I granted a perpetual right to use/modify.
Unfortunately for various reasons the project never got completed and I never monotized it, so I can't tell you the real-world outcome, but I do know we were all happy with the terms going into it.
It can definitely be a win/win for the company as well as for an enterprising engineer. The general idea is simply to go outside the scope of your contract and do something the company didn't ask for, in exchange for a bit of money and the right to reuse whatever code you developed for them.
Avoiding works for hire contracts is how I built a 25 year war chest of reusable components and frameworks, each piece commissioned to an individual task but each used and modified in my next jobs for my next clients, until many versions later I would update my original clients with them.
My advice to OP is to always present your ideas to owners or managers with open ears, and explain how it will help the company. Secondly, never do the work for free. Thirdly, always retain your rights to your ideas and your code when you're working on something creative. If they have a problem with that you can also explain that it's unlikely anyone else will either fill this niche to save them money or that any competitor will ever actually know about or use what you will build for them, but that having it at your disposal is a way for you to continue increasing their efficiency (which is true). It's also a way to make them beholden to you at very little initial cost.
And if they think you developed it while employed, things could get nasty. Don’t want them thinking you’re selling their IP commercially either. Formalizing the idea while employed and then taking it outside could be trouble. Probably worth discussing details with a lawyer before attempting.
If you develop an MVP while employed and gain stakeholder acceptance, you likely won’t see any huge financial gains. Maybe a promotion, pat on the back, small bonus, or can enjoy the prospect this being more interesting work for a time.
Dead Comment
Your employer is unlikely to appreciate your trying this.
> hence I learnt about that software
Your employer paid for the software, and you learned about in on their time. They pay you a salary to work for them. Its really that simple.
Best I can imagine working is for you to suggest you initiate a project to build in-house tooling as an employee, and maybe try to get a bonus or promotion out of a successful outcome. But its their decision, not yours.
I personally would still build it but sell that to another company
---
I've gone through the exact scenarion in your question though, this is roughly the path I took (Estonia & EU, YMMV in other jurisdictions):
- start by going over your contract - is this overall even allowed? Some companies capture all IP you create 24/7, in this case you'll need to get the contract changed or get an exception
- even if your contract allows doing other work (creating separate IP) outside of company time, still ask for written permission from your manager and possibly a skip level or two. I got a written email from my VP of eng and CTO before proceeding.
- you will probably need to _completely_ separate your own work from the company work. This means using your personal laptop, never working on this during work hours, etc. Separating this sometimes can be hard, especially if you get something like a bug report from your employer - you can't work with it until you're off the clock.
- I also completely cut myself off from the purchasing decision - I let them know I was working on a project, gave them a landing page and let the purchasing team do a decision completely on their own
- if you hope to build a business out of this it's best to be upfront about it, e.g. by telling your manager that you might leave to focus on the business full-time if it takes off
All of this assumes you're on good terms with your employer overall.
To the best of my understanding, as an employee the IP of all work you produce is owned by the company. Even as a contractor you need rather specific contracts if your work for hire is not to be owned by the client.
My first reaction is to advise you to let the idea go. The most likely outcome is that you will do a huge amount of work and then get caught up in legal nightmares. Getting legal advice up front won't spare you from more drama down the track.
Assuming that there are many companies that use the same software and have similar needs, then you have the option of leaving, developing a MVP and then selling it to other companies first and eventually to your ex-employer. Even then there are risks of being accused of taking proprietary information to enrich yourself. Another scenario is that the big-name company could beat you to the market with a poorly designed but aggressively marketed alternative to your solution.
In the UK, if you develop it in your free time it's yours, as long as you don't use company equipment.
However! It can be a clause in your contract to say sompany owns IP developed in free time, and is enforceable. Sometime there's often an extra clause saying unless an exemption is approved by the board (I assume to stop hirers informally saying 'oh don't worry about that', being legally valid).
I have asked companies to remove that clause and had it removed.
In another company a friend of mine had a small side project that was making money when he joined, and that company were fine waiving the clause. But those were smaller companies who were reasonable, bigger companies might not wiggle.
I'm in the UK. My contract specifically says that anything I produce while employed for the company, even in my free time, is owned by the company. So is your claim that the contract is illegal/unenforceable?
So de facto they're not that wrong (contract law is law too)
It’s called ’salary’. Unless this type of thing is common in your company, it sounds weird.
Maybe float the idea to your boss that you would be willing to do something like that, if dep B starts expressing a need for it.
“You get: [these features]”
“I get: [money and the IP]”
“We measure success and payment milestones are triggered by: [Clear KPIs and deadlines]”
Make sure the 1-2 page doc has your name on it, and ask your boss for permission to drop a paper version on the desks of the higher ups.
You can be employed and enter into a separate contract.
Edit: I just re-read the original post and saw that the OP is a software engineer. Ignore everything I said. This sounds like a terrible idea. You’ll burn all your bridges if you pursue this avenue.
You’re not a slave. You can say no to your boss. You’re on equal footing (though your boss generally has more power/wealth so can bully/manipulate you). It’s up to your boss as to what they do when you say no. If you’re a good employee when it comes to your usual responsibilities, then they’ll keep you.
If your boss tells you to write software as part of your job and you’re not a software engineer, you can tell them to get stuffed (or sign the contract and both parties benefit!).
Edit: I just re-read the original post and saw that the OP is a software engineer. Ignore everything I said. This sounds like a terrible idea. You’ll burn all your bridges if you pursue this avenue.
The only way I would pursue this is if other companies have the same need, and you can sell the same thing to them too.