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pksebben · a year ago
Made me think of these, and then I remembered to spread the meme:

Systems Thinking, Jamshid Gharajedaghi

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/592861.Systems_Thinking

When I read it like a decade ago it was The Tome on complex systems. There might be more up to date stuff but I guarantee the ideas are still solid.

Black Swan, Nasim Taleb

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/242472.The_Black_Swan

Mentioned in the article. Despite the celebrity power behind the title has some solid ideas backed by fairly cold analysis.

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omegaworks · a year ago
>The concept of a sociological critical mass was first used in the 1960s by Morton Grodzins, a political science professor at the University of Chicago. Grodzins studied racial segregation — in particular, examining why people seemed to separate themselves by race even when that separation was not enforced by law.

Curious where this researcher found examples of white flight in the 60s completely divorced from the reality of explicitly incentivized depopulation and segregation[1]. Very weird that it is used as an example of "spontaneous" sociological critical mass here, because it very much was catalyzed by real economic policy.

1. https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/redlining

jonahx · a year ago
Flight and segregation emerge spontaneously in any population where people don't want to be a significant minority, even when they prefer some amount of diversity:

https://ncase.me/polygons/

bryanrasmussen · a year ago
well it appears spontaneously in this game that has a hard set of deterministic rules, but there is no proof that actually this is the cause of demographic flight - just an argument. Probably a correct argument, but I am cursed with the tendency to see the opposition to my beliefs as perhaps true.
roenxi · a year ago
For such an interesting topic, the many of the leading examples seemed weak. The racial segregation one seemed a bit strange to me too (is racism really the only reason people can think of? If an area is undergoing radical demographic shifts then there is going to be a lot going on), the business one seemed vague and the Independence one is underexplored.

It is an important topic but I wouldn't recommend reading this article on it. It seems to be a just-so story situation without much meat on the bone.

wnc3141 · a year ago
(I could be wrong) I think there is an argument for a critical mass of where explicit policy gave way to more of a doom loop - as people then flee due to declining services and amenities caused by policy driven white flight.

Feel free to disagree.

jongjong · a year ago
Interesting read. It puts into context the importance of luck in life. There is a group of people who become oppressed to the point that it becomes unbearable and they have a choice either to die by revolting too early without critical mass, or by letting themselves starve from the increasing weight of the oppression. In the case of the opioid epidemic, people have been/are driven to insanity and commit suicide by drug overdose.

You really don't want to be in that early oppressed group.

IMO, it's because human systems are over-systematized and over-regulated. It always causes oppression. Some group of people has to pay dearly for all the structures that are imposed on them. Laws and social structures essentially never work for everyone equally; at scale, many laws systematically steal wealth, power and opportunities from one group and give it to another.

Even the most well-meaning laws basically end up stealing from certain groups of people for the benefit of others. Especially on a complex global playing field. Just look at Africa. It's not their fault that they're stuck in poverty... Western powers keep installing corrupt dictators by sponsoring coups. The dictators then saddle their citizens with debt. The people have little say. Then basically they become so poor that they are forced to immigrate to the rich countries which are causing the problems... And for the most part, join the lower class of that society where the oppression continues under a different form.

They get to be oppressed in this slightly different way while also contributing to the continued oppression of their people back in their home countries through the gift their cheap labor to their oppressors in their new country, which enriches them. This is made possible by a combination of ignorance and intergenerational low self-esteem inflicted upon them by their oppressors as a result of manipulation of the political systems of their previous countries.

IMO, US leftwing politics are extremely short sighted with their approach to immigration because they are building a critical mass of oppressed people in the US. Some people will be grateful initially but the gratefulness will soon turn to disdain once the new reality sinks in.

saturn8601 · a year ago
Thank you for this comment. It really expresses how I have been feeling in such a clear and eloquent way. The question is how do you overcome this? I am wasting my life away with this low self-esteem and also guilt because I see how the US has continued to damage my ancestral country (Pakistan) and it seems like there is no positive future for people there. I read about the utter despair of people there and it leads to guilt because despite my attempts to change the US political system (I have volunteered in multiple progressive campaigns and vote in every election) nothing changes.

I was lucky to have such good parents that drilled studying and hard work into my head and I lucked into a career that pays extremely well so im in the upper tier of the income strata but despite this, I feel like a second class citizen sometimes. The day to day is not bad because you can distract yourself but when you look back at the big picture its a problem. I dont feel like my fellow countrymen have my back if s*it hits the fan.

I have traveled enough throughout Europe and the other western nations to know that in all of these countries, people like me have it even worse than I do in the US but the US still feels fake like Mcdonalds.

jongjong · a year ago
It's great that you can see both extremes and have such a clear-eyed, honest view about the situation. There's only so much you can do.

The way I deal with it is I post comments online. It's the best I can do and the least I can do. Also, I believe that pointing out system flaws will lead to better outcomes and a better life for every honest person, rich or poor.

zakary · a year ago
Better never means better for everyone. And it always means worse for some.
nine_k · a year ago
> always means worse for some.

Can't agree. Say, when a new treatment emerges for a disease that was affecting some part of the population, it's better for the cured, and not any worse for all others.

Even simpler, at the very foundation of daily life: when two people willingly exchange something, they are both better off, by their subjective measures, else they would have done that. This applies not only to exchanging goods for money, but even to exchanging friendly smiles.

If all life were a zero-sum game, the world would never progress to its current state.

didgetmaster · a year ago
Life is not a 'zero sum game'. Just because someone benefits from something does not mean someone else is exploited or oppressed.

Many in the anti-capitalist crowd have the mindset that wealth is not created, but just spread around. If someone gets rich, it must mean others got poorer. If that were true then everyone would be getting poorer as the population grows (finite resources spread ever thinner within a growing society).

giovannibonetti · a year ago
That makes a lot of sense, well thought! The only thing I would like to add is regarding the critical mass of oppressed people in the US, at least when it comes to immigrants. I think the first generation struggles the most, but their children, who are raised - if not born - in the country face less issues, and things then improve from one generation to the other.

Granted, for generations there will be a difference between their standard of living and the one from their non-immigrant counterparts on average, but that gradual reduction might be enough to avoid reaching the tipping point.

shiroiushi · a year ago
>I think the first generation struggles the most, but their children, who are raised - if not born - in the country face less issues, and things then improve from one generation to the other.

>Granted, for generations there will be a difference between their standard of living and the one from their non-immigrant counterparts on average, but that gradual reduction might be enough to avoid reaching the tipping point.

This is the conventional wisdom about immigration in the US, because that's what the historical record says, but you shouldn't accept this as a given. The historical record shows that immigrant groups assimilated well into America ~150-~50 years ago, but those were also times when the American economy was expanding at a huge rate. So of course there was lots of room for newcomers to fit into that economy and help build it, at a time when everyone's standard of living was constantly rising. This is no longer true: America is being vastly outcompeted by other economies, namely China's, and American society seems to be going downhill in general, a process that seems to me to have started (at least most visibly) in the early 2000s.

nebula8804 · a year ago
>but their children, who are raised - if not born - in the country face less issues, and things then improve from one generation to the other.

Not if you are the group currently in the hot seat. First it was Irish and then Italians and then Jewish and then Japanese and then Black and then so on and so on.

Right now its probably Muslims and maybe in the future Chinese (I hope not).

They are on average more successful than their parents but all of that can be taken away in the blink of an eye and many would lose out in that scenario. Just ask the Japanese or Koreans (some of which never recovered from the concentration camps or the LA riots).

mempko · a year ago
I was hoping it would talk about the most important tipping points, the climate ones, but unfortunately it does not.
rwmj · a year ago
If you're comparing critical mass in physics with critical mass in sociology, I already know you're full of it without needing to read any further.
Joker_vD · a year ago
> The concept can explain everything from viral cat videos to why changing habits is so hard.

Somehow this line persuades me of exactly the opposite.

baxtr · a year ago
Why?
nine_k · a year ago
Indeed! Reaching the critical mass in a nuclear reaction pushes things apart, while reaching the critical mass in a social movement helps pull even.more participants.
tristanMatthias · a year ago
Is there not a value in drawing interdisciplinary ties between fields? Physics underpins reality, would it not be feasible that it's laws scale to higher order complexities?
stonethrowaway · a year ago
See Pepsi rebrand for answer.
blackeyeblitzar · a year ago
That seems like a shallow dismissal