I really want my next car to be an EV, but I am finding incredibly difficult to justify spending 35k on a car that has ~480 km range (effectively 400km as charging to 100% takes way too long).
I do understand the arguments about 90% of the driving is done within 200kms, but the obly reason for me to own a car is the long distance trips. Most of the Europeans are in the similar situation.
> but the obly reason for me to own a car is the long distance trips. Most of the Europeans are in the similar situation.
Unless you drive very often you can rent something like a brand new VW Polo for 30 euros a day (40 with extra insurance), realistically in Europe you should have about 5 weeks of vacation per year so you'd have a car for your long distance need for <1500 euros per year, no maintenance, no long term parking issues, &c.
I’m an EV fanboy and I find this argument very unconvincing. I don’t want to learn the workings of a new car when I’m on vacation. I don’t want to add two trips to the rental place. I want to go on vacation!
Same for me, daily driving is to and from the office, which is 35km each way. And activities for the kids, often that's 15-20km. I don't need a 400km range EV with all the weight and cost, I can do this with a 75km hybrid so I can make it to the office and back.
The other part of my driving is holidays and long distance family visits, a 400km range EV does not cover that. Especially things like going skiing where the charging infrastructure isn't very good and you end up in traffic jams waiting to charge.
These are what I have my eyes on - a small battery to do 10-20km trips within the day (and easier parking as there are designated charging points for charging EVs in my city). Any personal recommendations for a a crossover type car?
We tried the Kia Nero EV, and it's navigation voice, while having decent pronunciation, had such a weird rhythm and intonation when speaking that I had significant trouble understanding what it said.
I've never come across that with any artificial voice before.
And I'm fairly good at understanding both Swedish and Danish in addition to my native Norwegian, so used to variety.
The price drove us away, but had it been cheaper we'd likely not gotten it due to that poor voice, given the other options on the market. It just wasn't usable.
Heh yeah it's a bit weird. But when you're driving a new place in traffic, the voice guidance is a nice safety factor, not having to take your eyes off to look at the center console screen.
We ended up with a Renault Megane e-Tech. In addition to having a much better voice system, being based on Android Automotive, it supports putting the map in the driver console, ie replacing the dials (speed reading gets overlaid of course).
edit: I guess it also says something about how uniform these cars are, feature-wise. Few are radically different, so it quickly boils down to these minor features.
It's not for sale in the US this year, they're testing a to-be-released car. In fact Kia said it won't arrive in the US at all until 2026, at which point it may be called the [model year] 2027 Kia EV3
Please tell me I'm not the only person that thinks this thing is unfathomably ugly.
There is am amazing wealth of design language that could be used for electric cars, but for some reason, most manufacturers seem to land between "metabolic syndrome power ranger" and "criminally battered emoji".
To me, it looks like shares a lot of cues with a Kia Soul.
For years and years, I thought that the Soul was a nearly unspeakably ugly vehicle. (Not as bad as a Pontiac Aztek, but we don't talk about Azteks.)
But due to circumstances, I got to spent a few months driving one on a regular basis. That changed my perception enough that I can talk about it.
The Soul had a feeling of lightness that is unusual in even actually-light vehicles. It felt stiff, like the unibody was very rigid and that left the real work to be done by the suspension (as is right and proper). It was practical: The shit in the back folded down flat-enough to spend a long evening at a drive-in movie with someone rather close, or to go car-camping with them for a weekend and use it as a bail-out "the rain happened, and then the tent blew away" plan.
Instead of associating that shape with being simply ugly, I instead began associating it with being quirky, efficient, flexible, and rather fun.
YMMV. The form of the EV3 doesn't turn me off at all -- not even a little bit.
(I probably won't ever buy one -- despite my very positive time driving a Soul, I'm still a fan of vehicles that are either much more compact or which are much bigger and more utilitarian -- but it's probably a good fit for lots of folks. If shape were the only concern, I would support an SO's decision to buy one if they felt it was a good fit for them.)
Ugly and huge. No one needs such cars where I live. A lot of people buy this things but it’s always one person inside going to his white-collar job, definitely not farmers or anything like that. It’s infuriating.
They could make it half the size and remove $10k from the price, but they don’t seem to want that.
Reducing the size of a vehicle does little to reduce the price. Size is mostly just sheet metal, which is cheap, and air, which is free. Most consumers don't want to be squeezed into a tiny penalty box, especially on longer trips.
If you want a vehicle that's $10K cheaper then the manufacturer will have to cut a lot of the comfort and safety features that US consumers have come to expect. Those who want cheap vehicles just buy used.
> They could make it half the size and remove $10k from the price, but they don’t seem to want that.
People keep bringing this up.
The massive size of American-market cars is thanks to regulations introduced by the Obama administration.
They effectively outlawed small cars.
Plenty of people would love to be buy a modernized take on an 80s or 90s car, but they literally can't be made or sold in the US.
I live in Japan, and have a Kei from maybe the early 2000s? My only complaint is that the A/C is like being coughed on by an asthmatic penguin, because otherwise, I absolutely love that car, precisely because it's like driving a Honda from the 1980s. Lots of glass, low beltline, all the rest.
You can't get EVs with a long range at much lower weight with current technology. Batteries are heavy.
The solution if you want smaller/lighter cars is to consider something like a Prius or similar hybrid. Those weigh less and can still drive 80% of the time electric. But they come with the downsides of having a complex ICE with the maintenance costs that go with it.
Readit News
I do understand the arguments about 90% of the driving is done within 200kms, but the obly reason for me to own a car is the long distance trips. Most of the Europeans are in the similar situation.
Unless you drive very often you can rent something like a brand new VW Polo for 30 euros a day (40 with extra insurance), realistically in Europe you should have about 5 weeks of vacation per year so you'd have a car for your long distance need for <1500 euros per year, no maintenance, no long term parking issues, &c.
The other part of my driving is holidays and long distance family visits, a 400km range EV does not cover that. Especially things like going skiing where the charging infrastructure isn't very good and you end up in traffic jams waiting to charge.
I've never come across that with any artificial voice before.
And I'm fairly good at understanding both Swedish and Danish in addition to my native Norwegian, so used to variety.
The price drove us away, but had it been cheaper we'd likely not gotten it due to that poor voice, given the other options on the market. It just wasn't usable.
Even on boutique forum of HN
We ended up with a Renault Megane e-Tech. In addition to having a much better voice system, being based on Android Automotive, it supports putting the map in the driver console, ie replacing the dials (speed reading gets overlaid of course).
edit: I guess it also says something about how uniform these cars are, feature-wise. Few are radically different, so it quickly boils down to these minor features.
Given the usual car cycles, shouldn’t it be 2025? Are those numbers even meaningful nowadays?
There is am amazing wealth of design language that could be used for electric cars, but for some reason, most manufacturers seem to land between "metabolic syndrome power ranger" and "criminally battered emoji".
To me, it looks like shares a lot of cues with a Kia Soul.
For years and years, I thought that the Soul was a nearly unspeakably ugly vehicle. (Not as bad as a Pontiac Aztek, but we don't talk about Azteks.)
But due to circumstances, I got to spent a few months driving one on a regular basis. That changed my perception enough that I can talk about it.
The Soul had a feeling of lightness that is unusual in even actually-light vehicles. It felt stiff, like the unibody was very rigid and that left the real work to be done by the suspension (as is right and proper). It was practical: The shit in the back folded down flat-enough to spend a long evening at a drive-in movie with someone rather close, or to go car-camping with them for a weekend and use it as a bail-out "the rain happened, and then the tent blew away" plan.
Instead of associating that shape with being simply ugly, I instead began associating it with being quirky, efficient, flexible, and rather fun.
YMMV. The form of the EV3 doesn't turn me off at all -- not even a little bit.
(I probably won't ever buy one -- despite my very positive time driving a Soul, I'm still a fan of vehicles that are either much more compact or which are much bigger and more utilitarian -- but it's probably a good fit for lots of folks. If shape were the only concern, I would support an SO's decision to buy one if they felt it was a good fit for them.)
Don't start me on the Range Rover Evoque, which always reminds me of a Kia Soul at two to three times the price.
https://media.renault.com/r17-electric-restomod-x-ora-ito-th...
https://www.hyundai-n.com/en/models/rolling-lab/n-vision-74....
While I'm certainly not a fan of this 'genre' of car design, I don't find this one any more offensive than all the other cars it is similar to.
(•) A knockoff of that also horrible Land Rover Range Rover design with the narrow and rising window line
They could make it half the size and remove $10k from the price, but they don’t seem to want that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu7qbFWf6i0
If you want a vehicle that's $10K cheaper then the manufacturer will have to cut a lot of the comfort and safety features that US consumers have come to expect. Those who want cheap vehicles just buy used.
People keep bringing this up.
The massive size of American-market cars is thanks to regulations introduced by the Obama administration.
They effectively outlawed small cars.
Plenty of people would love to be buy a modernized take on an 80s or 90s car, but they literally can't be made or sold in the US.
I live in Japan, and have a Kei from maybe the early 2000s? My only complaint is that the A/C is like being coughed on by an asthmatic penguin, because otherwise, I absolutely love that car, precisely because it's like driving a Honda from the 1980s. Lots of glass, low beltline, all the rest.
it can be electric all it wants, it's still way oversized and that has a terrible environmental cost
A Nissan leaf comes at 1700kg with a smaller battery…
It doesn’t.
Env cost is burning fuel. Everything else doesn’t matter.
The solution if you want smaller/lighter cars is to consider something like a Prius or similar hybrid. Those weigh less and can still drive 80% of the time electric. But they come with the downsides of having a complex ICE with the maintenance costs that go with it.
> Kia wouldn’t confirm if it’ll get Tesla’s NACS standard and Supercharger access when it goes on sale here.