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Posted by u/puppycodes 2 years ago
Ask HN: UK based blogs on freedom and surveillence?
Does anyone have any good frequently updated podcasts, blogs, news, etc, focused on freedom of speech in the UK? Specifically technology focused freedoms?

I'm interested in updates to facial recognition, social media monitoring, "anti-social behavior" (AKA ASBOs), CCTV, basically all the things that scare me about the UK.

Post Snowden leaks with the GCHQ essentially devouring all internet content on the deep packet level, i've been hoping to hear more updates about the fight against that. Perhaps this is the very reason I've struggled to find resources that are somewhat from folks "on the ground"?

Thanks so much! Any leads much appreciated :)

sofixa · 2 years ago
> "anti-social behavior" (AKA ASBOs)

I was curious so I googled it.

> An anti-social behaviour order (ASBO /ˈæzboʊ/) is a civil order made in the United Kingdom against a person who had been shown, on the balance of evidence, to have engaged in anti-social behaviour. The orders were introduced by Prime Minister Tony Blair in 1998,[1] and continued in use until abolished in England and Wales by the Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 on 20 October 2014—although they continue to be used in Scotland and Northern Ireland.[2] ASBOs were replaced in England and Wales by the civil injunctions and criminal behaviour orders

So in England and Wales (covering most of the population of the UK), it has been replaced by CBOs:

> A CBO can be issued following a conviction for any criminal [2] offence in the Crown Court, a magistrates' court or a youth court. There is great discretion on the content of the order. A CBO can prohibit the offender from doing anything described in the order or require the offender to do anything described in the order or both.[1]

> For a CBO to be made the court must be satisfied, beyond reasonable doubt, that the offender has engaged in behaviour that caused, or was likely to cause, harassment, alarm or distress to any person; and that the court considers making the order will help in preventing the offender from engaging in such behaviour.[1]

That sounds somewhat reasonable? Are there examples of this being abused by courts? Sounds like a perfect and light answer to hooliganism, the recent far-right rioters, etc etc. Instead of locking them up for a prolonged period of time, a short sentence + restrictions to ensure they don't repeat offend.

pmyteh · 2 years ago
The CBO is more reasonable than the ASBO, certainly - one of the issues with the ASBO is that 'anti-social' was defined in an enormously wide-ranging way, so could (by design) be applied to people who were not breaking the law but were unpopular with the rest of the public for whatever reason.

There remain at least two difficulties. The first is that it gives a general power to make any legal act illegal, on a person-by-person basis. So you can, for example, be exiled from a particular area by the judge, with criminal penalties for disobeying (even though that's not a prescribed punishment in itself for any criminal offence). Where the order prohibits things that are likely preparatory to further crime and not something someone would want to do otherwise (car thief prohibited from touching unoccupied cars, for example, as in a recent case) it makes a lot of sense. But it does rely on the discretion of the judge being exercised reasonably.

The second one is much blunter: if you tell someone who has already broken the law (and doesn't care) that they can't do something, they are quite likely to ignore you. So they can generate quite a lot of further punishment/court time without actually deterring much. That's more of a practical objection than a philosophical one, though.

daghamm · 2 years ago
https://privacyinternational.org/

According to Wikipedia "Privacy International (PI) is a UK-based registered charity that defends and promotes the right to privacy across the world."

They are well known in privacy circles and have done some excellent investigations in past.

FreezingKeeper · 2 years ago
The Open Rights Group - https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/ - is probably a reasonable place to start.

Curious about what is scaring you btw.

p4trik · 2 years ago
Scaring me is getting to prison for expressing my opinion on a social platform.
mdp2021 · 2 years ago
Coincidentally, I just met this article from the Spectator:

# Free speech is dying in Britain - https://thespectator.com/topic/free-speech-died-britain/

Everything should be verified, but the article mentions cases that can be of concern.

sofixa · 2 years ago
Unless your opinion is that XYZ group of immutable characteristics is subhuman/has to be expelled/deserves less rights/has to be killed , you're safe.
n4r9 · 2 years ago
For context, there's a right-wing narrative in the UK that "thousands of people have been arrested just for posting their opinion on social media".

The reality is that the UK's "Communications Act" [0] does allow prosecutions for electronic communications (email, forums, and social media). The number of arrests under this Act are in the thousands, but it covers a wide range of issues like grooming, stalking, and racially aggravated hate crimes.

Earlier this year there were a number of violent & destructive riots across the UK which happened in response to a stabbing of 3 kids in Southport [1]. The riots were whipped up by a number of far-right entities on social media - personalities such as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, Andrew Tate, and Katie Hopkins - as well as more nebulous entities such as Europe Invasion. A crucial aspect of the far-right narrative was a false claim that the perpetrator was a Muslim asylum seeker. Arrests were made for directly inciting violence [2] as well as for generating misinformation about the perpetrator [3].

The discussion around this is in the sensitive area of free speech vs hate speech. In the UK we are a little more nuanced about the absolute requirement for freedom of speech. While I do appreciate the argument that policing of speech can become dangerous depending on who does the policing, I think the case of the riots is a good example of where we may need to evolve our ideas about what it means to incite violence. This episode demonstrates social media's potency and the horrific potential of the deliberate spreading of misinformation.

[0] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_riots

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/aug/09/two...

[3] https://metro.co.uk/2024/08/08/woman-first-shared-fake-south...

pixxel · 2 years ago
> I'm interested in updates to facial recognition, social media monitoring, "anti-social behavior" (AKA ASBOs), CCTV, basically all the things that scare me about the UK.
philipwhiuk · 2 years ago
I think you need to address your desire to doom scroll and it's impact on your mental health before you go hunting for more sources.
puppycodes · 2 years ago
Appreciate all the comments here and background! Thank you. In the USA there are some folks that are expressly interested in civil rights, online freedoms, etc... and the ones I really appreciate divorce themselves from politics as much as they can. Some might beleive you cannot and I get that, but i'm less interested in what is right or wrong and more interested in what currently "is" the law in the UK. Seems like politics might be so tightly coupled with this info though that getting a neutral news source might be wishful thinking?
nailer · 2 years ago
https://privacyinternational.org/ is a great UK-based org that campaigns on these matters.

https://x.com/privacyint

sixhobbits · 2 years ago
Can be a bit sensationalist but

- https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/

- https://www.statewatch.org/

Are the ones I've come across

okeuro49 · 2 years ago
The UK government and media recently coordinated to label anyone protesting about completely failed government immigration policy as "far-right".

In my lifetime, today is the most concerned about I have ever felt about living in the UK.

mdp2021 · 2 years ago
> is the most concerned about I have ever felt about living in the UK

I understand you. The Country we loved, Britons or foreigners, has shown vast devastating amounts of cracks.

Have you seen the disaster in Education? How can a Country be competitive with that downfall? The population seems unaware of the cost of compromises, relying on a "There'll always be" idea that discounts the "critical detail" that to have things, you have to maintain them.

Anyway: when a not trivial part of the world loves the British spirit, you can find a consolation - but there is much to fix.

And anyway: Britain is far from being alone in the crisis. Concerned about the sinister lurking? Maybe dreaming of Spain, as is customary North of the Contintent? Have you heard about those "laws for the new millennium" of ten years ago, after which - I read - people receive hefty fines for having expressed discontent about the activity of the Spanish police (and more similar cases)?

mdp2021 · 2 years ago
You figure if there is not somebody passing by that just wants to be annoying. You have an argument, formulate it; you don't, don't express yourself with grunts.
philipwhiuk · 2 years ago
> The UK government and media recently coordinated to label anyone protesting about completely failed government immigration policy as "far-right".

No just the guys throwing rocks and stones based on conspiracy theories spouted online.