Show HN: Visualize database schemas with a single query

I rather think using AI to generate scripts for other DBs is a disadvantage. Scripting is a deterministic process, surely? Can you create a common internal representation and write exporters for each supported DBMS from that? Maybe the JSON format you use is a path toward this.

I dislike the multiple references to 'Magic' on the site, but I realise that's probably a subjective thing. Maybe I'm fatigued by the AI-in-everything trend.

I don't use all the DBMSes you support, but I'm not sure having a single query to run is really much of a selling point. For SQL Server, I'd rather execute a stored procedure with permission checks, and progress feedback, than a big chunk o' SQL. (Again, that may just be a me thing.) If it's an efficiency thing for very large DBs then I think you should emphasise that, and also detail how much faster it is to gather all the info in one fell swoop than if you split up the queries.

The Examples link is currently broken on your site, btw. That sounds like a really useful way that people can evaluate your application without having to run a query on their own DB, which they may be reticent to do for testing out a new app.

Jonathanfishner · a year ago

Thanks for the feedback! We aimed to make database migration easier and found that AI could really enhance this process by handling the complexities of different DB dialects. We'll also explore more deterministic approaches, as you suggested, using a common internal representation. The "Examples" link is being fixed—thanks for catching that!

RadiozRadioz · a year ago

The different dialects have complexities, but they are they are known and explicitly defined. This task is natural to solve deterministically, and I'd say it's also important to do so - accuracy and consistency are paramount when migrating. I am having an extremely hard time understanding what benefits AI has here over a simple transpilation approach.

Two benefits coming to mind are that AI is a good buzzword, and "shove it into ChatGPT, that'll do" takes less effort than building a proper transpiler.

teleforce · a year ago

Not a database expert but CUE can be used for generic schema design and validation, maybe it can also be used for deterministic database schema extraction and migration [1].

Unlike AI's non-deterministic techniques for example LLM approaches to NLP, CUE utilizes a well established alternative NLP deterministic approach namely Feature Structure [2], [3].

[1] Cue – A language for defining, generating, and validating data:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20847943

[2] Feature structure:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_structure

[3] The Logic of CUE:

https://cuelang.org/docs/concept/the-logic-of-cue/

> visualize database schemas by generating ER diagrams with just one query

> visualize and design your DB with a single query

> Instantly visualize your database schema with a single "Smart Query."

The tool seems really useful and I will give it a try!

Just curious about the emphasis on the single query. What's the value of this? If it makes it much faster than similar tools it's probably worth making it explicit. I don't use them often enough to know if speed is a big issue (if this is the reason).

Nice work anyway!

croes · a year ago

>Just curious about the emphasis on the single query.

Marketing?

And they need a single json to create the diagram from.

Jonathanfishner · a year ago

Thanks for the feedback! The emphasis on a single query highlights how easy it is to import your database schema: just run the query, get the JSON output, and start editing your diagram in ChartDB. Plus, there’s no need to sign in or set your database credentials. It’s all about simplifying the process and saving time so you can get started quickly. Speed is a bonus, but the main value is the simplicity and ease of use. Glad you're giving it a try!

andrelaszlo · a year ago

Not requiring db credentials is a huge plus! Thanks for the explanation.

SoftTalker · a year ago

They are querying postgres information_schema tables (or their equivalent in the other supported databases) to get table names, column names and types, foreign keys, etc.

I doubt the "single query" makes it immensely faster, but reducing query round-trips is usually time-saving. Might be noticable, depending on what you're comparing it to.

hackernewds · a year ago

does it necessitate foreign keys and schemas being defined beforehand? or is that the "AI magic"?

djray · a year ago

rustman123 · a year ago

"PostgresSQL"? "SQL Lite"? Not even getting the names of the supported databases right doesn’t create trust…

zx8080 · a year ago

We are entering into an era of AI-generated programs. Brace yourself and enjoy the shitshow.

Deleted Comment

doctorpangloss · a year ago

On the other hand, the chatbots let enthusiasts like these guys write code. There are millions of them. And each of them, even if they are 1/2 as good as you rustman123, for starters they will learn the right names for things, that’s not challenging, and secondly, they have more time than you have for this problem, which you have zero.

The chatbots are the Zero to One for programming.

So listen I agree with you. I’m not going to use this. But hundreds of thousands of smart people with time, like these guys, can now author stuff that will get better over time faster than you personally will solve any one particular problem for anyone. So something something, log in your own eye before the thorn in the other.

wesammikhail · a year ago

> The chatbots are the Zero to One for programming.

This would make Peter himself cringe let alone the rests of us.

That said, if you really believe this, I've got an AI product to sell you. It's the Zero to One for anything you want. It's called HypeLLM.

jkcorrea · a year ago

idk why you’re getting downvoted. you’re absolutely right and not disparaging in any way. sometimes hn can’t see the forest for the trees…

qwertydog · a year ago

Just checked out the MS SQL script. I believe it's vulnerable to SQL injection via table/column/view/index/schema names (however unlikely that may be). You might want a disclaimer not to run the script with object names that could be user provided (especially as a privileged user)

Thanks for pointing that out! Just to clarify, we provide a single, hardcoded query that fetches metadata, with no option for user input. The user only needs to take the generated JSON and use it in a React app that they can also run locally. Since there's no user input involved, SQL injection shouldn't be a concern here. If you see any specific risks, though, I’d love to hear more!

Ah sorry my bad, I should have read the full script. The script fails though if object names contain double quotes e.g. https://dbfiddle.uk/y-C6Da07

amenghra · a year ago

If you want to see the single queries: https://github.com/chartdb/chartdb/blob/main/src/lib/data/im...

webprofusion · a year ago

Not bad! Could do with a layout option so the relations are easier to see.

The OG of DB table designers is the SQL Server database diagrams feature, and before that MS Access, and there is still room for improvement in this tool. Obviously saving changes back to your db (and migration scripts) is the most important feature, git tracking of schema changes would be good.

ok123456 · a year ago

How is this different from Schema Spy (https://schemaspy.org)?

layer8 · a year ago

It supports fewer databases. ;)

callumgare · a year ago

A big one for me is that it generates a nice interactive UI with the ability to zoom and reorganise tables rather than a static image. I find with sufficiently complex projects it becomes a real pain to navigate a exported image.

Schema Spy generates graphviz files. You could render those in the browser.

Hmm, the obvious difference is that it's a completely different tool that does a completely different job.

How is it an "obvious" difference that it's a "completely" different tool that does a "completely different" job? Both tools generate diagrams from existing databases.

gitroom · a year ago

This is cool, but there are a lot of visualizer, what's the difference?

Thank you first of all! ChartDB stands out with its one-query for visualization, AI-powered migration for easy cross-DB transitions, and interactive editing, all free and open-source, combining these features in a user-friendly way.

SahAssar · a year ago

I'm not sold on many of those points, but "AI-powered migration" stood out to me (as something that seems like a risky idea with many unknown consequences). What do you mean by that and how would it be deployed?