The post office in the UK has always relied on an extensive network of "subpostmasters" to run local branches. These are often people who run small businesses or shops and add basic postal services such as delivering packages, selling stamps etc to an existing shop. This is especially important as a service in small towns etc.
In 1999 the government brought in Fujitsu as an IT provider and insisted these subpostmasters adopt a fujitsu-developed accounting system called "Horizon" to account for the postal activities of these shops. They then (relentlessly) investigated and prosecuted an extraordinary number of these people for fraud based on the outputs of this system, which turned out to have been reporting incorrectly based of software bugs. This was covered up. About 700 subpostmasters were prosecuted for fraud and theft and over a hundred sent to prison even though as far as I am aware there is literally no evidence other than horizon of any wrongdoing by any of them.
The facts are finally emerging and justice is starting to be done although the perpetrators of the malicious prosecutions and the coverup have so far got off and victims have still not received compensation.
> About 700 subpostmasters were prosecuted for fraud and theft and over a hundred sent to prison
And at least four purportedly related to these prosecutions committed suicide[1].
Perhaps most alarmingly: prior to 1999, the burden of proof for proving that the Horizon system was working correctly would have fallen to the Post Office (as the prosecutor in these instances) and Fujitsu (as the developer). That rule was changed to presume that the computer system worked correctly unless there was explicit evidence to the contrary[2][3].
A very high barrier for a non-technical person to prove, especially in an extremely complex system.
It worries me how many people put unchecked faith into the systems that, now more-or-less, rule our lives whether we like it or not.
It worries me even more that a lot of computer programmers, systems engineers, et al, don't understand how their code affects others in bad and unintended ways, and why testing matters so much. Uncle Bob, as divisive as he is, hits this nail on the head with a depleted uranium sledgehammer[4] (19:47-24:33).
It's worth noting that some of the victims of this died before it came out. To say this ruined lives is an understatement.
It's also important to know that the UK government knew about the flaws with the program but covered them up rather than dealing with the issue. It wasn't until a documentary came out about the issue that the public outcry grew large enough to actual prompt a full investigation.
> This says they'll get compensation, so that's good.
It looks like they will get compensation this time, but only after being featured on an ITV TV drama. The first time around the government drip fed compensation and massively reduced figures, including to people who served jail time for crimes that never happened. Many of the victims are old and some were made homeless because of the Post Office. It was just extra cruelty and maliciousness on top of the injustice they had suffered.
Yeah, I really hope some higher-ups at both the national postal service and Fujistu go to jail over this.
And how the hell did the post office come to believe 700+ sub-post-masters were committing fraud? It strikes me as patently ridiculous that such a large number of people would be doing similar small-time accounting fraud. Nobody thought "huh, might be the systems?"
Serious questions: If there were so many of them, how did the justice system not figure out this was flawed much sooner? How did the legal representation for these subpostmasters fail to be able to prove their innocence?
Post Office officials knew it was broken and lied over and over again. They hid a report into Horizon from 2003 and threatened the consultant if he spoke out [1].
The Post Office also knew for a fact their defense was false but continued to lie in court [2].
In England (but not Scotland), the Post Office itself acted as prosecutor separate to the normal justice system. Investigators were incentivized to find people guilty.
The justice system is regional, spread around the country there probably weren't so many in one place that somebody might question it but then it's also for the court to only consider the evidence in front of it.
Only the Post Office (covering it up) knew there were so many and they didn't tell the court and in fact they told all the accused that they were the only one (or just a handful) so none of them knew either... its only after the campaigning and research of Alan Bates (one of wrongly accused subpostmasters, and after this week knighted for what he did in uncovering it so is now Sir Alan Bates) that it all came out, especially after a documentary was made about it suddenly the general public knew as well.
Private Eye magazine (a sort of political commentary/satirical news magazine in the UK) had been reporting it for years that there was clearly a problem as it was crippingly obvious that we didn't suddenly have a country full of hundreds and hundreds of fraudulent post office workers, but the average person doesn't read it and the MPs were happy to ignore it and believe Fujitsu over their own postmasters some of whom had been doing the job for decades prior to the mess.
The enquiry evidence that's been broadcasted recently from the key players is both fascinating and infuriating on what a mess and a coverup it was.
I don't think the Post Office debacle features, but at the end of the Secret Barrister(1), a hypothetical example is given where the many critical systemic failings described in the book align to get an innocent person found guilty and imprisoned. It's pretty close to what actually happened to the subpostmasters (but for assault rather then fraud).
¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Barrister. It's very good and all you can say after reading it is "Jesus, I just hope I stay lucky enough to never get involved in the courts". I don't think anything has improved since 2018.
It should have been a huge red flag to have that many people from a very specific segment of society, sub-postmasters, convicted of the same crime. Regardless of pleading guilty or not, the idea of that many sub-postmasters committing the same crime is so absurd it should have kicked off internal investigations at the Ministry of Justic and post.
> Emergency legislation to exonerate wrongfully convicted Post Office workers has completed its journey through Scottish Parliament and each will now receive initial compensation of £600,000, with the ability to claim more as financial redress for their suffering.
Readit News
The post office in the UK has always relied on an extensive network of "subpostmasters" to run local branches. These are often people who run small businesses or shops and add basic postal services such as delivering packages, selling stamps etc to an existing shop. This is especially important as a service in small towns etc.
In 1999 the government brought in Fujitsu as an IT provider and insisted these subpostmasters adopt a fujitsu-developed accounting system called "Horizon" to account for the postal activities of these shops. They then (relentlessly) investigated and prosecuted an extraordinary number of these people for fraud based on the outputs of this system, which turned out to have been reporting incorrectly based of software bugs. This was covered up. About 700 subpostmasters were prosecuted for fraud and theft and over a hundred sent to prison even though as far as I am aware there is literally no evidence other than horizon of any wrongdoing by any of them.
The facts are finally emerging and justice is starting to be done although the perpetrators of the malicious prosecutions and the coverup have so far got off and victims have still not received compensation.
Here is a slightly more extensive summary https://www.computerweekly.com/feature/Post-Office-Horizon-s...
And at least four purportedly related to these prosecutions committed suicide[1].
Perhaps most alarmingly: prior to 1999, the burden of proof for proving that the Horizon system was working correctly would have fallen to the Post Office (as the prosecutor in these instances) and Fujitsu (as the developer). That rule was changed to presume that the computer system worked correctly unless there was explicit evidence to the contrary[2][3].
A very high barrier for a non-technical person to prove, especially in an extremely complex system.
It worries me how many people put unchecked faith into the systems that, now more-or-less, rule our lives whether we like it or not.
It worries me even more that a lot of computer programmers, systems engineers, et al, don't understand how their code affects others in bad and unintended ways, and why testing matters so much. Uncle Bob, as divisive as he is, hits this nail on the head with a depleted uranium sledgehammer[4] (19:47-24:33).
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/07/what-is-the...
[2] https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252501510/BCS-demands-re...
[3] https://www.ukauthority.com/articles/bcs-calls-for-change-in...
[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EmboKQH8lM&t=1187s
I can't think of many programmers who would deny the possibility.
It's also important to know that the UK government knew about the flaws with the program but covered them up rather than dealing with the issue. It wasn't until a documentary came out about the issue that the public outcry grew large enough to actual prompt a full investigation.
It looks like they will get compensation this time, but only after being featured on an ITV TV drama. The first time around the government drip fed compensation and massively reduced figures, including to people who served jail time for crimes that never happened. Many of the victims are old and some were made homeless because of the Post Office. It was just extra cruelty and maliciousness on top of the injustice they had suffered.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61187241
very tangential, very important: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y65FRxE7uMc
And how the hell did the post office come to believe 700+ sub-post-masters were committing fraud? It strikes me as patently ridiculous that such a large number of people would be doing similar small-time accounting fraud. Nobody thought "huh, might be the systems?"
The Post Office also knew for a fact their defense was false but continued to lie in court [2].
In England (but not Scotland), the Post Office itself acted as prosecutor separate to the normal justice system. Investigators were incentivized to find people guilty.
[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-67921974
[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68663750
Only the Post Office (covering it up) knew there were so many and they didn't tell the court and in fact they told all the accused that they were the only one (or just a handful) so none of them knew either... its only after the campaigning and research of Alan Bates (one of wrongly accused subpostmasters, and after this week knighted for what he did in uncovering it so is now Sir Alan Bates) that it all came out, especially after a documentary was made about it suddenly the general public knew as well.
Private Eye magazine (a sort of political commentary/satirical news magazine in the UK) had been reporting it for years that there was clearly a problem as it was crippingly obvious that we didn't suddenly have a country full of hundreds and hundreds of fraudulent post office workers, but the average person doesn't read it and the MPs were happy to ignore it and believe Fujitsu over their own postmasters some of whom had been doing the job for decades prior to the mess.
The enquiry evidence that's been broadcasted recently from the key players is both fascinating and infuriating on what a mess and a coverup it was.
I don't think the Post Office debacle features, but at the end of the Secret Barrister(1), a hypothetical example is given where the many critical systemic failings described in the book align to get an innocent person found guilty and imprisoned. It's pretty close to what actually happened to the subpostmasters (but for assault rather then fraud).
¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Barrister. It's very good and all you can say after reading it is "Jesus, I just hope I stay lucky enough to never get involved in the courts". I don't think anything has improved since 2018.
> Emergency legislation to exonerate wrongfully convicted Post Office workers has completed its journey through Scottish Parliament and each will now receive initial compensation of £600,000, with the ability to claim more as financial redress for their suffering.
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