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blt · 2 years ago
In case the author is reading, some places that could be clarified:

> Scatter a bunch of points in a plane. Connect some of them with lines. That’s all a graph is.

This may mislead the uninitiated reader to think that the definition of a graph includes vertex locations in R^2.

> Over the years, mathematicians worked to reduce the number of edges Hamiltonian graphs had to have.

The article is about showing that certain graph properties guarantee the existence of a Hamiltonian cycle. But the logical structure of this sentence implies the converse: showing that the existence of a Hamiltonian cycle guarantees other properties. But all it guarantees is |E| >= |V|.

kwstas · 2 years ago
Here is the paper in arxiv the article is refering to for anyone else interested https://arxiv.org/abs/2402.06603

Though maybe just the proof outline section is enough for a Saturday.

denton-scratch · 2 years ago
> It just seems like this is bound to be useful.

If (a) it's hard to find cycles in a graph, and (b) it's not hard to construct a graph with a cycle, that sounds to me like the makings of a trapdoor function that could be useful in cryptography.

[I'm neither a mathematician nor a cryptographer]

foota · 2 years ago
Nit: It's only hard to find _hamiltonian_ cycles, finding general cycles is trivial. More generally, it's hard to find long simple cycles (a simple cycle is one with no overlapping vertices visited twice).

I don't know how hard it is to generate graphs that are hard to find simple cycles in though. For example, previous work showed that random graphs are likely to contain hamiltonian cycles (and with this algorithm they can now be found).

klyrs · 2 years ago
Take your favorite hash function, and view it as inducing a directed graph on the set of its possible outputs. Finding a cycle is hard! (except, most hash functions map 0->0 for "nothing up my sleeves" appeal)

But also, it's ridiculously hard to answer simple questions about such graphs, such as listing its nodes.

dustfinger · 2 years ago
> that could be useful in cryptography.

See related Neural Cryptography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_cryptography

denton-scratch · 2 years ago
Thanks; interesting. Sounds like it's mainly to do with cryptanalysis and key-exchange.
SteveJS · 2 years ago
there’s a quote at the end, saying this establishes a fundamental connection between two objects which are central to computer science.

The quote leaves those two objects unnamed. Are they supposed to be “graphs” and “groups”?

nyrikki · 2 years ago
> It proves, for instance, that certain types of graphs that have to do with groups, called Cayley graphs, must have Hamiltonian cycles

Yes, graphs and groups.

Sniffnoy · 2 years ago
So annoyingly the paper doesn't explicitly state the constant they got, but from a brief skim it looks like it's, like, 10^15?? I really hope someone can improve that...
jgalt212 · 2 years ago
I wonder if this can be used to prove if all substantial React apps include cycles--even if the raison d'etre of React is one-way data flow (i.e. no cycles).
noqc · 2 years ago
This quanta title has to be rage bait. I don't think they could have constructed a more annoying title.
PartiallyTyped · 2 years ago
Could you elaborate ?
noqc · 2 years ago
Sure, a graph is connected if it has a spanning tree, which requires |E|>=|V|-1. Presumably a graph is only highly connected if it has more edges than this minimal requirement, so we have |E|>=|V|, and this graph must have a loop.
ororroro · 2 years ago
I am not an expert but it looks like the quanta author has invented a definition for "highly connected" because C-expander was too complicated a concept for them (me too). There are older competing definitions for "highly connected" along the lines of a graph where the number of edges is greater then half the number of vertices which is obviously insufficient to guarantee a loop.

Then they have used networks instead of graphs and added a comma, for no apparent reason.

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